Puppeteer

Author Topic: key puller help part 2  (Read 9684 times)

32 coupe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
  • "Doc Johnson" on call !
    • View Profile
key puller help part 2
« on: April 04, 2012, 11:51:29 PM »
Well I guess I screwed this up ! Got in too big of a hurry with the puller and ended up with this.

So here is what I'm thinking. If you look at the pic of the puller I made you will see I have a "mistake" hole to the right of the top bolt. ( I hate that ) I'm thinking of adding a few more holes with "puller bolts" in them to add more pulling power.  And perhaps a little help from the "smoke wrench"......Any thoughts on this one ??

32 coupe

 
Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

carlb23

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 12:48:22 AM »
from that pic it actually looks like the flywheel has moved back some.

Thob

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 12:54:55 AM »
At least now you know how you bent the key on the other one!  :D

Does your puller flex when it's under stress?  You really want the puller to pull against the key as close to the center of the crank as possible, if it's flexing then you need a thicker/stronger plate.  It might help to rotate the puller about 120* so that the slot for installing the puller isn't right next to key when you're pulling on it.

I suspect it may be time to get out the sharp drills and carefully drill this one out.  >:(
Witte 98RC Gas burner - Kubota D600 w/ST7.5KW head.
I'm not afraid to take anything apart.
I am sometimes afraid I'm not going to get it back together.

Tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Green power is good.
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 01:06:06 AM »
Oh oh. Here's what I'd do, weld the head of the gib key to your puller plate on the out side of the key. Then run a bead or 3 of weld from the back of the gib key head and along the key to strengthen this area and prevent the head from breaking off. Then modify the puller to  have a bolt along both sides of the key as near as possible to the shaft and as near as possible to the key. That way the pulling forces will be straight through the key. Good luck! The heat from welding may also help to loosen things up.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

LowGear

  • Casey
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
  • What? My diesel had fries for lunch?
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2012, 02:05:22 AM »
I'd be tempted to put washers under the tension bolts so there was just the slightest float.  And then just before I gave the crank a bit of a loving tap I'd drive the puller down and as close as possible to the key - snug it up and then - Rough Love, Baby!.

But my experience is more with the $^#*ing flywheels on Mini Coopers.

Casey

NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
Kubota BX 2230
Witte BD Generator
SunnyBoy 6000 + SolarWorld 245

selmawp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • When I was young and full off??????????
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2012, 03:21:22 AM »
Hi, I am a new bee on this side but I have some experience helping a friend of with his 10/1,from what I can see in your pix first of all the hole is to large you should have no more 2 thousands clearence also from what I can see your plate is to thin I made one that is 1/2" thick so that the key hase no room to bend up, then the cutout that go's over the key no more than 2-3 thousand of clearens, all that said heat the key and tap it back in place, and use at least 1/2" fine tread bolts. Hope this help any? just ask.






'

sailawayrb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2012, 03:28:05 AM »
To deform the key that way, your plate must be flexing badly or your plate contact point is high up on the head so as to generate a torque.  You need a plate that doesn't flex at all and tighten the bolts to maintain a contact point low on the head to generate pure force and no torque.  Given the situation you have now, my vote would be Tom's approach.

Bob B.

Quinnf

  • Rest in peace
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 645
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2012, 03:55:05 AM »
Just another perspective here.  Everybody's got their own idea of how to make a flywheel puller, but for my money the one that works best is one that presses on the flywheel hub AND the gib key head.  The ones that grip the gib key head and obtain leverage against the end of the crankshaft might work for you, but you could also simply drag the flywheel and the gib key along the crankshaft, scarring it badly along the way.  

My first puller consisted simply of a pair of wedges cut from 3/8" steel pate and driven together between the hub and the gib key head.  The diagram shows one wedge.  Depending on how far in the key was driven you may be able to fit a second wedge in there and drive both wedges against each other.  On my first engine (an Aswamegh 6/1) the key was so tight I had to hold the wedges down against the top of the key with a C-clamp because the gib key was arching its back like a Halloween cat.  It just barely worked.  I expected the head to rip off the key at any time, but it finally came loose.  



On my second engine, I decided I'd try something else.  I took a piece of 1/4" steel plate and welded a couple of coupling nuts to it, threaded a couple of bolts into the nuts and applies pressure against the flywheel hub and the key backed right out.  Note the two bolts that exert downward force on the gib key, keeping it from arching.  From the experience I had with my first engine, I think it's important to keep the key straight.





With this design it may be necessary to cut away some of the steel plate to allow it to drop between the head of the key and the hub.

Rotsaruck!

Quinn








« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 04:09:25 AM by Quinnf »
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

sailawayrb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2012, 01:18:26 PM »
That's a beautiful tool Quinn and thats where the force needs to get applied.  I also concur with you approach of applying force between the key head and flywheel hub and commented accordingly in the prior thread on this saga.  My only concern with your tool is that it's width is larger than the clearance between my key head and flywheel hub.  I only have about 3/4".  However, I bet your tool doesn't flex!

Bob B.

Combustor

  • Combustor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2012, 01:59:34 PM »
Hello 32 Coupe,
                     By all means try several of the above suggestions, and you may succeed. Looks like you are up for a new key anyway, so order one in, amd in the meamtime you can make a drill guide that will take out the old key without further damage. You can probably use a heavy drift to knock that key down flat again prior to drilling.
          Previous owners of my Lister VA, (aircooled 8/1)  had used a huge puller on the flywheel and pulled it onto the key so that nothing would shift it. Drill was the final option.  Took a piece of 14mm square key, say 2" or longer, which is a slip fit in the keyway, then measured the average thickness of a new key, (or your other old one) and found a drill of that diameter. Marked a centre line across the square end of the key then measured half the drill diameter up from the bottom of the keyway and punched a center in it. Then centered the punchmark in a 4 jaw chuck in the lathe and drilled it through with a drill round 2/3rds of the larger one. EXAMPLE, if the key was 3/8" deep, drill 1/4". You may need to make extended drills, but you can weld (arc or braze) length to them easily.
          Clamp the guide firmly in the keyway and with a new sharp drill, some lube and moderate speed you will get the small drill through in good time. Then discard the guide and run the larger drill through, should be easy. Keh will be split down its length and should pry out. If not, start the motor and let it fire a few strokes at low speed. Spray a bit of lube down the drill hole. You can repeat the engine start after the key is out if the wheel is still tight.  The process sounds a bit brutal, but is a surefire no damage method.  Hope this helps.   Combustor.
Toys include- Lister CS 8/1, Lister VA SOM plant and some Aussie engines.
   "Old iron in the Outback" Kimberley, West Australia.

Quinnf

  • Rest in peace
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 645
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2012, 03:26:56 PM »
That's a beautiful tool Quinn and thats where the force needs to get applied.  I also concur with you approach of applying force between the key head and flywheel hub and commented accordingly in the prior thread on this saga.  My only concern with your tool is that it's width is larger than the clearance between my key head and flywheel hub.  I only have about 3/4".  However, I bet your tool doesn't flex!

Bob B.

Thanks for saying I have a nice tool!   ::)  Had the clearance been tighter I would have used heavier material and cut out a notch to engage the head.  Just another way to accomplish the same end, so I thought I'd post the pics.

Each engine is different.  Some have keys that are driven deep, others are sticking way out.  I ended up spending some time applying smoke from a candle to the surfaces of the key and filing down the high spots until the key went farther in. 

Quinn
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

Tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Green power is good.
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2012, 05:47:46 PM »
I'll second the comment on the nice puller design Quinn. I notice that you have Ashwamegh #208, I have #217.

At this point with the bend in the key and likely breakage, I still think the welding suggestion is the most prudent route to remove the key.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

32 coupe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
  • "Doc Johnson" on call !
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2012, 09:10:47 PM »
Hey all,
You guys always have great ideas.

My puller is made from 1/2" steel so I don't think it is bending or is weak. The bolts are 7/16" hardened cap screws and I did have washers behind them against the flywheel. I guess after the first one went pretty good I just got in a hurry and made this mistake.

I like Quinnf's idea of the "wedge" as well as his puller.

I will probibly go with Quinnf's ideas but at this point I'm in no hurry and will probibly think about it for a couple of days before I attack it again.

32 coupe
Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

magnicon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2012, 09:28:47 AM »
Some time back I borrowed two purpose made wedges from a farmer neighbor,one was straight and the other curved,the faces of them where slightly angled so they got a good bite into the key,they worked a treat.Apparently they are available from Claas combine dealers as service tools.

xyzer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1058
    • View Profile
Re: key puller help part 2
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2012, 02:16:42 PM »
I built one on the same basic design Quinns. Mine had a head that was flared like an old wedge. Obvious sledge abuse! I have to agree with bob on this one. Keep the force as close to the keyway as possible.

  My puller, of similar design, worked better when I slipped a piece of aluminum welding rod between the puller and the root of the head.

  Yours appears to effectively pull further out on the head, thus bending the key, and forcing the taper tighter into the flywheel/crankshaft.

  My 2C

Good luck!!

Vidhata 6/1 portable
Power Solutions portable 6/1
Z482 KUBOTA