Lister & Genhead are on the way

[Doug]

Cool show us a pic or two of you and the motor in one of those tender moments you no doubt shared when the crate cam off.....

Doug

[Mikofox]

Congrats Steve!
Paid for my 12/2 - 650 RPM Powerline last Monday. Took the teller two hours. 
Hope it works out.
As for a head I have no ideas yet, other than I'd prefer a brushless head in the 7KW range.

[trigzy]

I'm not sure if I mentioned to you - but I'm working with a Chinese company on some 1800RPM brushless heads that "an old slip ring guy" like Doug might even like.  They sent me a 20kW head - I just need to have some time to get the thing turning & really load it up  (Of course - no one seems to want to answer thier emails and sell me a G%$ D%#$ PULLEY!!!! - but that's another story).  Let me know as your lister gets closer and I can walk you through the Customs paperwork if you are going to pick it up yourself...........  Which port is it coming in to?

Steve

[Doug]

I've been reading the rules regarding emissions for Canadian off road diesels.

How is we're getting away with importing stationaries?

Is it because someone forgot to add the word stationary or am I missing something?

Doug

[trigzy]

Somewhere there is a brief definition of stationary, and they are completely exempt from the Cdn rules.  The spark ignition rules have been in for 15 months now, the compression for 3 months......and so far they aren't enforcing either.....or even asking about the EPA certification..... 

Steve

[Doug]

I'll have to have a closser look thanks....

Doug

[listeroidsusa]

Hey Trigzy, I've been trying to get an email to you but your link on here sends me to a msn site that wants me to sign up for access to your email account. Give me a shout at alternateenergy@bellsouth.net about the pulley. I've not been able to get a message to you that msn accepts or that doesn't bounce. Sorry to use the forum for this but its the only way I know to get in touch with you.

Mike

[Doug]

I don't know Steve are we reading from the same document??

http://www.ec.gc.ca/CEPARegistry/documents/regs/g2-13904_r1.pdf

I've read this a few times, and looks more like a case of the don't say anything about stationary rather than offer and exemption.....

Doug

[trigzy]

Doug,

3.1 What is an off-road engine?

(Skip to the bottom)

The definition of off-road engine does not include engines designed to be used in stationary applications, such as a fixed generator-set or pump.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/CEPARegistry/documents/regs/orcieeg_GD/c3.cfm

Steve

[Doug]

Yes I see now.....
Good thing too I was starting to grind my gears on the mining exemption looking for an angle.
Do you know whats a pitty? There are scrubbers on the market that I'm sure would make the EPA tier II a breaze for all the Americans, trouble is the massive papper work and fees to prove it. There has got to be a way to bring all these engines up to spec for everyone without blowing the bank.

Doug

[trigzy]

Hi All,
         So, I finally decided I needed to have a closer look at the 20kW alternator that I was shipped, and actually spin it up and make some voltage.  Of course with the Lister still buried away, I thought I better find something else to spin it up with.  With no 48mm shaft pulleys anywhere in sight, I got out the dril and drilled a small hole in the end of the shaft.  Then to the tap & die set, and threaded the hole.  Insert a bolt, put the appropriate attachment on the drill, and voila! a drill powered generator. 

Just in case you were wondering, a 4 Amp drill can spin up a 20kW head, but you might want to use a drill that's still in warranty as you'll surely finish off the brushes.  So I spun the unit up, and it showed voltage, and the control panel light came on, just before the drill died.  So, with it being nice outside, I decided I could poke around on the generator for a bit before getting back to real work.  Well that proved benifical, because sun was a little better than the previous light that I looked at the generator with, and the prints the chinese sent me make a little more sense.


                     ----MAIN FIELD*====<===<=*X-FIELD*-----                     (Generator shaft)
                         MAIN STATOR                      X-STATOR
                          |       |       |                          |     |
                          |       |       |                          |     |
                          |       |       |                          |     |
                          |       |       |                          |     |   
                             [A   V   R] =====>=====>----->


So, I've got my head wrapped around this unit now, so I thought I'd explain those interested how it works.  Keep in mind that this unit is completely brushless.  So closest to the shaft end of the unit is the main field and stator, quite similar to that of an ST generator.  However, instead of the field recieving voltage from brushes, it is powered from another small generator at the other end of the shaft.

1) The AVR provides voltage to the stator of the exciter (X-STATOR)
2) Voltage is induced in the field of the exciter (X-FIELD)
3) X-Field voltage is rectified through a set of diodes
4) X-Field voltage supplies the MAIN FIELD  with power through two wires running along the shaft
5) Voltage is induced in the MAIN STATOR, and is used to power loads, as well as the AVR

So all in all, I think it's a neat setup, and it should work out pretty good....   

Thoughts, opinions, comments, questions???





                           

[Doug]

Lets see if I understand....
the field ad the main exciter are two different units on the same shaft. What you have is the AVR providing DC power to the field of the pilot excitor 3 phase and diodes to rectify the ac to dc for the main filed right ? If I understand correctly you are discribing a very common way ( and realy good way ) this is done on most big heads.

Good score on these heads, I wish I could look inside one can you snap more pics of the AVR and main exciter for me Steve? I have the feeling I'm going to wish I had ordered one of those from you.

Doug

[trigzy]

Doug,
        Sorry - the talk of main/pilot exciter confuses me, but I think we are talking about the same thing.

-Yes, there are two completely separate generators operating on the same shaft.  There are several inches between them, and the sizes are completely different.  The separation was so obvious, I'm not sure how I missed it before.
-The AVR provides DC voltage to the Stator of the smaller generator.
-An AC current is induced in the Rotor of the small generator, and rectified to DC by a three phase rectifier.  (I assume the rotor is three phase, but didn't look that close)
-This DC voltage is carried to the rotor of the main generator with wires, and is used as the field current.
-Current is induced in the main stator, which provides voltage.

Not too late if you are more interested in one of these, I'll probably get the ST just in case anyways.......
I'll have to borrow a camera with a much better macro function than mine to get a decent picture of this.....  hopefully sometime this week....


Interview with Hydro One tommorow - wish me luck....


Steve

[Doug]

Good Luck withthe interview, I'll message, email or phone you later and we can talk about the heads.

Doug

[msjanket]

What do these ST genheads of 2.5 and 5.0 kw cost at this time?  I am thinking of one but still doing the research into permanent magnet alternators, etc.

thanks

Mike