Author Topic: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......  (Read 43849 times)

listard-jp2

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Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« on: February 10, 2011, 10:05:42 AM »
Here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/user/ushillbillies#p/a/u/1/VpoA5nYkwCk

Which shows a Lister HR2G (a spark ignition version of the Lister HR2 diesel engine) running on woodgas, produced from a homemade gasifier.

It must work quite well, as they manage to hand start it easily.

The gasifier looks a bit crude, as it incorporates used R134a refrigerant cylinder, car radiator, and other salvaged items, but it obviously works well.

Also found a few of these engines on ebay, pricewise they are a bargain compared to an equivalent twin cylinder CS.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Lister-HR2-G-Industrial-Natural-Gas-Engine-Cores-/180448183293?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a038cc3fd

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lister-HR3-G-Industrial-Natural-Gas-Engine-Good-Runner-/120509214593?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c0ee8af81

Amarbir[India]

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 05:23:46 PM »
Well,
 Very Interesting .Never Laid My hands on the lister hr2g's @ here in india  ;D .Infact never seen other type lister other then traditional lister cs type clones here .We are also working on a biogas project for the listeroid with no clue yet what to do and what not to
Regards

Amarbir Singh Dhillon [ www.indianlisteroid.com ]
Indian Listers - Research ,Repair And Spares

dieselgman

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 02:21:59 AM »
Canadian oilfield stuff... The HRG models are very solid. We have 120 of them in our Kansas facility with intention of doing a woodgas or other gaseous fuel projects. The problem with the HRG is that it was only produced in the US and exported to Canada and other industrial sites... Lister England built the basic block (same as diesel HR) but did not provide all of the unique top-end parts. Lister America has not done a good job in providing parts support either. Our company now stocks all the rebuild and maintenance parts for them in large quantity, and continued support is therefore guaranteed. If you are near Colorado, then the Powerzone HRG cores (listed in prior posts) are a good value. We also have all documentation and manuals for these models.

Dieselgman
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 06:35:21 PM by dieselgman »
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listard-jp2

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 01:28:48 PM »
The problem with the HRG is that it was only produced in the US and exported to Canada and other industrial sites... Lister England built the basic block (same as diesel HR) but did not provide all of the unique-top end parts. Our company now stocks all the rebuild and maintenance parts for them in large quantity, and continued support is therefore guaranteed. We also have all documentation and manuals for these models.

Dieselgman

Sounds like your a very knowledgable chap on these HRG engines.

With your quote above in mind, would you be able to comment on the following, as I have worked on nearly every air cooled Lister diesel engine apart from these, and hence have no knowledge of Lister HRG specific parts.

How would the piston design differ from the HR diesel version, and do you have pistons available in an oversize.

How does the cylinder head differ from its diesel counterpart, is it just a case that the injector hole is tapped out for a suitable sized spark plug.

Are the valves of a different material, so as to be able to cope with what must be higher combustion chamber temperatures in comparison to the diesel counterpart.

Are the valve seat inserts of a harder material, so as to reduce valve seat recession.

What sort of gas carburettor do they use, IMPCO ?

Finally what sort of compression ratios do these engines run at.

Thanks in anticipation of your reply,

Listard-jp2


dieselgman

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 06:30:13 PM »
The HRG piston has a deep concentric dish rather than the small diesel combustion chamber, The top ring land has a steel reinforcement, compression rings are of special harder iron than the diesel counterpart, they are available in all oversizes. The cylinders are the same as the diesel versions. The cylinder heads and valves are completely different... they have specially hardened seats as well as hardened valves for the higher temps, spark plugs rather than injectors. They run a much lighter compression... i believe 12/1 or less but I'll have to look that figure up to be certain what the actual number is. They use Impco carbs and regulators and Altronic ignition systems. A diesel HR may be modified to be a gas engine and vice versa because the blocks and lower ends are the same. Governors are quite different between the two though.
These will run on Natural Gas, Propane, and filtered well-head gas. We are interested in developing the mods for wood-gas operation. I am thinking this should be very easy to do.

Dieselgman
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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2011, 05:14:50 AM »
I know the guy who built this gasifier. It's his first generation gasifier and is building a better second generation gasifier right now.  ;)
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listard-jp2

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2011, 12:30:03 PM »
I know the guy who built this gasifier. It's his first generation gasifier and is building a better second generation gasifier right now.  ;)

Any chance of another you-tube video then? As what he achieved with the first gasifier was well impressive, considering that it was made mostly from items which alot of people would consider to be junk.

From the original You-tube video, judging by the ease of which he is able to restart the engine on the starting handle it is suggestive that the quality of the producer gas being made by the gasifier is also very good. Was this because he was using good quality seasoned hardwoods, or just a very well thought out design.

It looked like on the original video that he had an updraft design, did he have any problems with 'bridging' taking place in the reduction zone of the gasifier, and if so how did he overcome them?

Finally is he still using the Lister HRG2 engine with his new and improved gasifier design?

 

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2011, 12:38:11 AM »
I know the guy who built this gasifier. It's his first generation gasifier and is building a better second generation gasifier right now.  ;)

Any chance of another you-tube video then? As what he achieved with the first gasifier was well impressive, considering that it was made mostly from items which alot of people would consider to be junk.

From the original You-tube video, judging by the ease of which he is able to restart the engine on the starting handle it is suggestive that the quality of the producer gas being made by the gasifier is also very good. Was this because he was using good quality seasoned hardwoods, or just a very well thought out design.

It looked like on the original video that he had an updraft design, did he have any problems with 'bridging' taking place in the reduction zone of the gasifier, and if so how did he overcome them?

Finally is he still using the Lister HRG2 engine with his new and improved gasifier design?

 

He has 3 videos of his gasifier in action on his channel: The one posted, and these two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciNNtV8sZY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTCv-jbAH3s

He indeed built it entirely from junk he had laying around.  :P

The gas he made was pretty good, but it had some tar in it and it has since gummed up the valves on that Lister. However, his 2.0 version gasifier should run hotter and have less tar and better gas cleaning capabilities. He experimented with different woods local to us, and the best we can get is actually Poplar.  :laugh: There's not much here for hardwood.

As for bridging, he had a little stick coming out of the bottom that he could shake to break up the 'bridge'. Version 2.0 has a bit more elegant solution. :)

He'll probably get his Lister up and running again here this summer once he completes gasifier 2.0. ;)
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listard-jp2

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2011, 04:02:23 PM »

Yes I also saw those two additional video-clips at the time of my first posting, but as the modifications were obviously quite subtle, as I didn't realise this was an improved version, until you pointed that out, BTW the you tube nic of USHILLBILLIES is right on the money ;D.

Forgive the pun, but Popular wood seems to be a popular choice in the US for producer gas systems, as it must grow like weeds?

As you rightly say, increasing the operating temperature can only be beneficial, in terms of converting more of the tar content into producer gas. Which is definitely the right way to go, because the better the design of the producer gas plant is, it will enable a wider choice of fuel options including poorer quality types of soft wood which usually have higher tar content.

IMHO The Lister HR2G engine, is an ideal candidate for running on wood gas, due to its robust design, and being specifically factory modified to run on a wide variety of gaseous fuels (though I doubt Lister-Petter anticipated one of them being wood gas ;D).

Keep up the good work, and I look forward to hearing more as the project develops.

Tom

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2011, 06:21:57 PM »
Poplar might even grow faster than weeds. Cut one down and 100 sprout from the roots. Very invasive roots too.
Tom
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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2011, 03:04:36 AM »
Yup. Poplar grows like hell.  :laugh:
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listard-jp2

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2011, 11:00:03 AM »
Poplar might even grow faster than weeds. Cut one down and 100 sprout from the roots. Very invasive roots too.

This sounds very similar to Hazel nut trees in the UK, as they are a sustainable source of firewood which can be coppiced (cut) every 7 -10 years, and no matter how hard you cut them down they just keep coming back for more. Which when the cut wood is seasoned it is on a par with some hardwoods, and thus is of a low tar content.

If you had enough spare waste land then this could be the ultimate form of free fuel when combined with a suitable producer gas plant ;D, and environmentally would be near to being carbon neutral.

I see that in the youtube clip with the Lister HR2G engine, woodchips are being fed into the producer gas plant, so is the poplar wood fed through a chipper before hand, or are the woodchips a by product of some other activity.

Finally what sort of filtration does this producer gas plant use, to eliminate ash carryover into the engine?






deeiche

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2011, 03:31:56 PM »
I live in rural suburbia, with 2.5 acres, ~ 1 hectare, in alfalfa.  Last year I produced ~ 14 tons over 6 cuttings and sold all of it.  I just purchased a small number of miscanthus giganteus rhizomes for a test planting.  Depending on how well it grows here, middle New Mexico, I may plant it when the alfalfa needs replanting.  I've seen various yields reported, from 8 to 16 tons / acre.

To use miscanthus giganteus in a producer gas generator I would probably need to create briquettes first.

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Re: Lister HR2G engine running on Woodgas......
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2011, 12:46:59 AM »
Poplar might even grow faster than weeds. Cut one down and 100 sprout from the roots. Very invasive roots too.

This sounds very similar to Hazel nut trees in the UK, as they are a sustainable source of firewood which can be coppiced (cut) every 7 -10 years, and no matter how hard you cut them down they just keep coming back for more. Which when the cut wood is seasoned it is on a par with some hardwoods, and thus is of a low tar content.

If you had enough spare waste land then this could be the ultimate form of free fuel when combined with a suitable producer gas plant ;D, and environmentally would be near to being carbon neutral.

I see that in the youtube clip with the Lister HR2G engine, woodchips are being fed into the producer gas plant, so is the poplar wood fed through a chipper before hand, or are the woodchips a by product of some other activity.

Finally what sort of filtration does this producer gas plant use, to eliminate ash carryover into the engine?


I believe he is just cutting it up into chunks with a chainsaw and axe for now. Says he's going to be building a gang saw in the near future.

As for filtration, I'm not sure what he uses...
GTC 6/1, ST 5 head. Take THAT Fortis Alberta!

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