Puppeteer

Author Topic: WMO 2nd GENERATION  (Read 19922 times)

Bottleveg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2011, 10:40:58 PM »
No, you won’t need the light. You’ll have one of those long pipes with the vapour flame at the top.

millman56

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2011, 07:23:04 PM »
 This informative piece by Mr Goran Jonsson may help shed some light on our engine wear problems.                                             Member: Pacific Petroleum Ltd Post Date: 6/15/2002   
Wear in a cylinder liner is mainly due to friction, abrasion and corrosion, although under severe conditions adhesion may also occur. Each of them may have a number of causes.
Frictional wear takes place between the sliding surfaces of cylinder liner and piston rings. It will depend upon the materials involved, surface conditions, efficiency of cylinder lubrication, piston speed, engine load with corresponding pressure and temperatures, maintenance of piston rings, combustion efficiency and contamination of air or fuel.

Corrosion occurs mainly in engines burning heavy fuels, particularly with high sulfur content. Acids formed during combustion cause it and these must be neutralized by the use of alkaline cylinder oil. Sulfuric acid corrosion may be caused in the lower part of the liner if the jacket cooling water temperature is to low. This may allow vapor present after combustion to condense. The moisture formed will absorb any sulfur present to form sulfuric acid. Maintaining jacket temperature above the corresponding dewpoint can prevent this.

Water vapor will be present from the combustion of hydrogen together with any water present in the fuel. It may be increased if water passes from the charger air cooler.

Abrasion may take place from the products of mechanical wear, corrosion and combustion - all of which form hard particles. Ash may be present in some heavy fuels, as well as fines (aluminum compounds added as a catalyst during the refining process and not removed from the residual fuel) which may act as abrasives.

Adhesion or scuffing is a form of local welding between particles from the piston ring and the liner-rubbing surface, resulting in very rapid wear. It may occur it the lubricating oil film between ring and the liner is removed due to excessive temperature, insufficient supply or incorrect distribution of oil, piston blowpast, etc. Engines operating on some low sulfur grade of fuel may be prone to scuffing damage.

The rate of wear varies over the life of the liner. It is high during the initial running-in period after which it should reduce to an almost constant rate for most of the useful life of the liner. Finally the rate will progressively increase as wear become excessive.

Normal wear rate differs but an approximate figure of 0,1 mm per 1000 hours is accepted. For large engines wear is increased if the engine is overloaded. Maximum wear before renewal is usually limited to 0,6 - 0,8% of original bore diameter or less when manufacturer advice.

How to prevent metal-wear of liner?

By using Pacific Petroleum PP-C Cylinder oil additive blended into the cylinder lube oil with a dose around 3% by volume the cylinder oil wear protection characteristics will be improved. The additive has also a strong neutralization effect of sulfuric acid and will contribute to prolong the life of the liner and piston ring.

How much longer will the liners last when using PP-C Cylinder oil additive?

In an ASTM D2509, D2782 Timken Extreme Pressure tests the result of the additive show clearly, and how it increases the protection rate of normal cylinder lube oil.

Plain cylinder oils without additive have the wear protection factor 5.

The same cylinder oil with the dose 3% has the wear protection factor 250. Which means that the same oil with additive will reduce the normal metal-wear rate with (250: 5) 50 times above normal.

Detergent and clean piston ring seats.

The additive contain a detergent that will keep the piston ring seats clean and prevent blocking, and prevent build-ups of carbon.

By consuming 10 liters PP-C Cylinder oil additive per day in a full size vessel you avoid most of the cleanliness, corrosion and metal-wear problem in the liner and piston ring seats.

PACIFIC PETROLEUM LTD.
Goran Jonsson.
additive@panafonet.gr

 
  Reply | Email  Edit/Delete   

  Member: Pacific Petroleum Ltd Post Date: 6/15/2002   
Just for your information!


It was found in a research program performed by the National Technical University of Athens Greece, an increase of the mechanical efficiency in Marine diesel engines up to 4,2% when PP 2000 Engine protector was in use. The improvements was soley due to less internal friction in the engine. At the bottom line the same level of improvements will result in a net fuel saving in the same order. The cost from using PP2000 Engine Protector represent about 1% of the fuel saving. Clear net profit about 3%!!!! The main profit will however come from reduced wear and tear of liners, piston rings bearings etc.

For more information, contact:


Pacific Petroleum LTD.
Mesogeion Ave. 433
Agia Paraskevi Attica Gr 15343
Greece
Phone: -30 106009241
Fax: -30 106396545
email additive@panafonet.gr


------------------
Goran Jonsson

[This message has been edited by Pacific Petroleum Ltd (edited 6/15/2002).]
 
  Reply | Email  Edit/Delete   

  Member: meh_force12 Post Date: 3/20/2004   

 
  Reply | Email  Edit/Delete   


cujet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 812
  • Lister power rules!
    • View Profile
    • www.cujet.com
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2011, 05:09:13 PM »
I'm not sure how informative this is. However, I used diluted WMO in the diesel Rabbit (1600cc) IDI engine with great results. However, I gravity filtered it with a Motorguard 0.5 micron filter. And, I did this from the top of my barrel, which has been settling for quite some time. The oil on top was black, but you could notice a bit of amber in the color and not visibly contaminated like freshly drained motor oil. A drop on the paper towel revealed an obvious amber color.

Upon disassembly of the engine, I was surprised to find that the engine was not loaded up with carbon. In fact, it looked quite normal. That engine will go on to live another life!
I give up

millman56

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2011, 06:51:14 AM »
Cujet,        for me very informative, it has reinforced a theory of mine regarding acid erosion, see my post on the previous WMO thread.
The rest is pretty well what most of us already knew/ assumed, one thing for sure is that when shipping lines spend millions on engines they are going to get their facts right,  how I can apply their solutions to my engines is not clear, I am not about to drill into 14 water cooled cylinders  ( 3 engines 4 and 6 cyl )  to pump oil into the bores and a 100 Hp open crank engine is out of the question. 
Its good to hear of your success with the VW 1600, what is problematic about the WMO question is the variety of oils/dilution rates/engine types/usage/personal take on things etc etc,  your use is way different from mine which is runnig one engine in particular at near its  max output   (based on the fact that 3 more Kilowatts load sends it into visibly black smoke exhaust )  for 10 hours a day 6 days a week.  Mark.

 

DRDEATH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2011, 08:16:28 AM »
Cujet you said gravity filtered. This seems simple but I have tried to pump filter without much success. So I would like a little more information. Is you oil HOT. Mine was just warm from sunlight during August in western KS. I am really serious about getting a centrifuge but I would rather hold off. I am trying to work a deal with one of my BRITT friends to make one for me when he makes one for himself. Thanks, Mike DD
Breast cancer kills. It takes money to save lives.

Bottleveg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2011, 08:50:35 PM »
Cujet you said gravity filtered. This seems simple but I have tried to pump filter without much success. So I would like a little more information. Is you oil HOT. Mine was just warm from sunlight during August in western KS. I am really serious about getting a centrifuge but I would rather hold off. I am trying to work a deal with one of my BRITT friends to make one for me when he makes one for himself. Thanks, Mike DD

Mike, one of the keys to long lasting filters is to let the oil settle for as long as possible and then filter the oil from the top. Heating the oil will lower its viscosity so increase its flow through the filter.

cylinderheadnut

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2011, 03:57:15 PM »
We have not touched on the very important question of is the wmo exhaust toxic, and if so we need it analized and compared to Diesel fuel.

If the result is bad then we cannot proceed any further.

julianf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2011, 05:16:28 PM »
We have not touched on the very important question of is the wmo exhaust toxic, and if so we need it analized and compared to Diesel fuel.

If the result is bad then we cannot proceed any further.

This has been a concern of mine (i own a 6/1 and am considering fuel options)

...however, someone pointed out to me that the Kroll burners (etc) are legal, and, not only that, German (and i think germany has tighter emissions controls than most places)

This is only speculation though, & I too would like to see clear reports (and indeed, was asking if anyone could point me toward anything on the Navitron forum not so long ago, with no sucess ):

cujet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 812
  • Lister power rules!
    • View Profile
    • www.cujet.com
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2011, 05:05:59 PM »
Sorry it's been so long.

My filter setup is simple. I purchased Motorguard filters online, from an automotive paint supply house. I hooked 2 vinyl 3/8 inch hoses to the filter. I attached a weight to the suction side. So the tubing would remain submerged.

I then siphon from the top of the barrel. It takes all day and night to fill a 2 gallon jug. The oil is likely to be about 70 degrees or more, not heated, but it ain't cold here in South Florida.

No pump required. The filtered oil is obviously cleaner. However...

Interesting enough, I let the filtered oil sit in one of mama's clear flower vases for the last year. Sure enough, it's clear like new oil at the top and there is darker sediment sitting at the bottom.

So, even though the motorguard filters are 0.5 micron, the oil can obviously be filtered even better.

Chris
I give up

bschwartz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2011, 08:58:57 PM »
0.5 micron nominal, or absolute?

My bet is nominal which means that it is only trapping particles as small as .5 microns, but the majority of those (and larger) get through.

http://www.lenntech.com/library/fine/absolute/absolute-nominal-filters.htm
-Brett

1982 300SD, 1995 Suburban 6.5, 1994 F250, R170, Metro 6/ sold :( , Witte CD-12 ..... What else can I run on WVO?

cujet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 812
  • Lister power rules!
    • View Profile
    • www.cujet.com
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2011, 11:31:14 PM »
Well, it's a Motorguard filter. So, it's rating is 0.5 micron. It does not specify on the sticker "nominal" or "absolute". Sorry but I simply don't know.

This much I do know, the very same element is used as bypass filters on automotive engines. They are quite effective in keeping the motor oil clean.
I give up

bschwartz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2011, 12:48:19 AM »
My guess is that if it doesn't say absolute, it isn't.  Manufacturers are very proud (read as expensive) of being able to label a filter as absolute.   In a bypass configuration, the oil goes through the filter many times and each time, the filter catches some of the particles.  It may work well in that application, but in a single pass configuration, I wouldn't trust one to clean my fuel well enough. 
-Brett

1982 300SD, 1995 Suburban 6.5, 1994 F250, R170, Metro 6/ sold :( , Witte CD-12 ..... What else can I run on WVO?

EcoTort

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2011, 03:54:23 PM »
Hi,
I am now the proud owner of a 50' narrowboat, gutted by fire, bought as an insurance write-off. She is fitted with a lister SR3 & marine g/box.
As an eco- activist I am very interested in burning waste oil,
There is a company in Brixham, Devon who have been working on a technology for quite some time, using Hydrogen/Oxygen mix generated by electrolysis of water fed into the inlet manifold. They market a product which is claimed to eliminate almost ALL emissions, and increase fuel/power efficiency by between 20 to 100%.
I wonder if it would burn the ash and other contaminants gerneratyed by burning WMO ?
Below is a link to their site, I don't have financeial resources to investigate this myself, but perhaps you do?

http://www.hydrogenhybrids.uk.com/

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2957
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2011, 04:07:42 PM »
Skeptic #1 here, but their claims are not too outlandish I suppose. However, extending this to WMO and zero emissions? Not happening!

Any takers?   :laugh:

dieselgman
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...

cgwymp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
    • View Profile
Re: WMO 2nd GENERATION
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2011, 05:27:14 PM »
I just glanced at the site but it looks like they disassociate water into oxygen & hydrogen via electrolysis, then pipe that into the engine to be burned back into water. It's impossible to get more energy out of the combustion than it took to crack the water into H & O, so best case is break even. But engines aren't 100% efficient so it won't be best case by a long shot. And I really don't see how it could do much to improve the emissions. Sorry!
Listeroid 8/1