Something I found here

[Equine]

Greetings everyone!

I have been trying to find something here in Hungary that's similar to a Lister type engine. It's not so easy via the internet as most folks having such an engine rusting away in their backyard/barn/garage/etc are folks without access to the internet. A scavenger hunt would probably bring better results, but it's not very straight forward where to start.

Searching on the net tho' did give me a few clues! There were a few manufacturers (Deutz was one of them for example), who sold low speed diesels in this general area. I found a classified, which offers an engine for sale, and it looks rather promising , at first glance. It's a "BL-7" , and I honestly have no idea what company manufactured it. I can't really find further info on it on the net, only a few additional pictures here and there. For what it's worth, I thought I share this finding with you folks, maybe someone has seen a similar model. It's horizontal, and by the looks of it, it has a coolant reservoir on top. I can't be sure , but it looks like there is a transmission (belt, or chain maybe) between the crankshaft and the flywheels, which suggests that the crankshaft itself is turning at a considerably higher RPM than the flywheels.

Below are three photos. The first shows the engine for sale (it has an electric starter attached to it, price is about 450 USD). The other two shows the same model, but not the engine that's for sale. They do show it from a somewhat different angle. No info on actual RPM, HP ,etc.





Also here are two shots of a Deutz make (found it posted in a hungarian forum), looks rather similar (in general structure) to a Lister, but in a horizontal arrangement. Also this has a sparkplug installed (so I'm guessing it's actually built for lighter fuels, and not for diesel, or both).

[spencer1885]

Welcome to the forum.
I am sure you can set up a home system to generate electricity, I think doing it in away which is not to time consuming or expensive is the tricky bit.
One of those engines in your pictures would make a great generator run on veg oil or bio gas with a battery bank and an inverter.

Merry Christmas
Spencer

[Equine]

Thanks for the input, and Merry Christmas to you as well!

For now I'll keep looking around here. I have contacted the people who posted those photos on that forum I found, asking them about source, places to look, etc. Something cheap, and usable should turn up sooner or later .

[spencer1885]

Before you get to involved in the engine it's self you should look what's out there already built for the job.
What I mean is buy a generator set complete, probably about 3 to 4 KVA or a DC generator .
A medium to slow speed single cylinder vintage or very old generating set would be a good starting place.
Then you can work on a system to make bio gas or veg oil as fuel to power it.
Once you have done both of those things then all you need is a large forklift battery and an inverter which you can buy from places like Ebay.

Spencer

[Equine]

My plan is something like this:

1) Finish my home on my land and move in
2) Experiment around with biodiesel, and biogas a bit, ask local restaurants, etc if they would be willing to part with their WVO
3) Sniff around for a suitable engine, preferably water cooled and low speed
4) Experiment with the engine, fiddle around with it
5) Hook up a generator head (unless it already came with one, if I get my hands on a genset)

Or something like that. I do tend to be impulsive tho'. If i'll see a rather cheap and suitable engine for sale (say a lucky barn find or something) I'd probably buy it , and mess around with it. I definitely wont be ordering anything from India or the US any time soon, as that's quite expensive, and I would be jumping the gun. As i assimilate information on my way, my plans might change, even radically, but I have a general idea of what I am aiming for. Used gensets (3-6 kW range) cost over 350-400 USD. They are a good source for a decent alternator I guess! Most of these are direct drive and run at 3000 RPM.

I did find this, by the way:



It's up for sale for about 950 USD, and from the looks of it (and the text of the ad) , it's a late Lister (from 1986), air cooled. It produces about 6 kVA.

So basically I'm considering various options, and what you (Spencer) say, is something that crossed my mind as well. Unfortunately it's hard to come by very old, low speed machines around here (small country, small market).

Eq

[Equine]

I found some more pictures of the insides of that rusty horizontal engine (which I think is a "Deutz"), thought I share them.

[Equine]

I just came across a Deutz MA 608 not far from where I live, in very good shape! Unfortunately I had to find out that it's an Otto engine, and runs on gasoline (4 HP), so it's probably a no go. Might be good for bio-gas though. It's painfully cheap though, it's on sale for only about 165 USD.

[Equine]

Hello again!

I kinda learned what to look for here i Hungary. These engines (BL-7, BL-12, MIA, MIB) were in widespread use here. Practically they were fitted to horse drawn wagons, creating a motorized vehicle. These were called "csettegő" in Hungarian, which roughly translates to "clapper", due to their very characteristic sound. Quite a number of these can still be found for sale , in various states of decay, but there are also completely rebuilt engines out there for about 700 USD. Most of the used ones are between 165 and 300 USD. It can be a bit of a gamble. I was also told that these engines aren't used for "active duty" here in Hungary, mostly just owned by collectors, and such. From the success of the Lister in the US and the UK, I'd say these engines might be suitable for more than that (having basically the very same structure).

Just for fun here are a couple of videos of two MIA engines in action. First one is "standard condition", the one below is the completely rebuilt model (which is for sale at about 700 USD). They are around 6-8 HP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSx4lstAme8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ga8Ffhf2bY&feature=related

And a rather peculiar way to start an engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76homV7MuOI&feature=related

[Doug]

There is a very simmilar engine still made in Poland we were just discussing before you joined.

Some might be willing to buy one of these but untill you came along there was no one we could talk to about accessing these engines from Central Eroupe.

[Equine]

Aye, I've seen that engine, I even asked for a quote from that company, out of interest (no response yet).

In case I get my hands on one of these buggers, I'll post my experience with it here, of course .

[LowGear]

And a rather peculiar way to start an engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76homV7MuOI&feature=related

"Hey, Watch me do this."  If these ole boys had a strong accent I'd know which part of West Virginia they be fetched-up from.  A very down home engine starting.  Of course the real question is "How many "guys" does it take to start a small diesel engine?"

Great video - Thanks,

Casey

[Equine]

They are actually Hungarians, but the question is still very much valid  .

A couple more videos of the typical use of these engines around here:

A "clapper" (buggy kinda thing with a band saw on it!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AeBRQiOJ1Y

And the rather typical "clapper", there were (and maybe still are) quite a few in the countryside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QySF8Ga3Oes&feature=related

Oh and here's a "new" MIB based small tractor/buggy thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oy1_Mu8yWs&feature=related

[spencer1885]

Just a thought, have you got a free fuel supply sorted out if not I would not bother looking at engines just yet.
If you can not get a free supply of veg oil in large enough quantities then there's no point in going any further.
You might find that you would be better of with a petrol engine run on gas.

[Equine]

Aye, that's a very good poin there! And actually I have been asking around if the petrol/gas engines can be run on diesel (by disabling the spark plug), because they have the very same construction. That way I could safely buy any of these engines and later decide what fuel to use.

Also even fresh vegetable oil is considerably cheaper here than diesel oil. A gallon of diesel fuel is about 6.4 dollars here and climbs higher every year. A gallon of cooking oil, if you buy the cheapest and in 10-50 liter batches, is around 3-4 dollars. Of course that's still not biodiesel, but I've seen people using SVO. My idea is to first ask around in local eateries and such to see if they are willing to part with their WVO. Since it's the holidays now I can't do that, so I'm doing research on engines .

Most of my current research is because I would like to discover what I can build on locally.To get the lay of the land, so to speak. I usually gather a lot of information on various fields of a broader projects and then put the pieces together to see what would be the smartest way to proceed. For that I need to see what engines are available around here.

[spencer1885]

Have you thought about wood gas for fuel as in the UK veg oil is hard to get hold of.
I was thinking of some kind of gas to run a petrol engine or even a steam turbine to power a CHP system.
I can get used engine oil as fuel to burn for heat, so I was wondering if I could use this to make steam.

Spencer