Author Topic: Wmo  (Read 117734 times)

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2010, 03:41:00 PM »
I thought you might have some personal tips or insights to share. Let me give you an example what I mean.

If someone asked me about where I get aluminum for casting I'd tell them the last batch I got of over 100 lbs was from a marine engine dealer. The repair shop gave me a barrel full of pistons, and some broken outdrive cases for ten bucks. I showed them some pix of a lathe I'd built and a milling attachment, and they were happy to help me out.

Now I figure somebody asking me that probably already knows they could buy it at a scrap yard, or melt down an old broken lawn chair, but they might not have thought of an marine dealer, so that's what they were asking -- was there some experience that I had in finding it they might not have thought of -- a personal tip.

Of course you don't have to do that if you don't want to. No problem. Have a nice day.


Nothing wrong with asking and I can tell you,but the subject of waste motor oil for use in a diesel engine as fuel is well discussed one.
Lots of discussion on types, blends and how to filter it.
All the time I hear people say they tried it and it works.
It terns out they put a bit in and run the engine and that's the last you hear about it.
What I want is one or more people to tell us they use it every day for the last year or so as a sole fuel just mixed with a small amount of some thing to thin it.
There's no point in using wmo if you only use your generator as a back up.
If you use a generator to power your house every day then you would run wmo because diesel is to expensive.
Cheers
Spencer






vtmetro

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 03:54:54 PM »
Hey, Low gear thanks for answering.

I did know I get WMO out of my '51 John Deere Model M after dragging trees, or my home made band saw mill's engine, †or my truck or my wife's car when I change the oil. And, I know I get WMO out of the Listeroid itself.

I guess I figured Matthew was going through 400+ gallons a year as a full time WMO burner, and unless he was a fleet or garage owner, that he might have some personal insights in finding, negotiating, and handling quantities of WMO beyond personal oil changes.

I also asked because most of the WVO (yes I know the topic is WMO, but the problems are similar) around here is now locked up by franchises whose signs at the back of restaurants warn that unauthorized removal is theft. The local oil change place uses their WMO for heat.

It also seemed like Matthew was alone in his first post with nobody to talk to about large scale WMO use, complaining that people here were "all talk and no action," and that people "went silent" after setting up for WMO, so I thought I'd offer a friendly reply. Seemed like he wanted to talk about the subject of full time WMO generation.

Supply seems to me like a pretty important topic as former "waste" streams of energy stock get bought up by larger and larger outfits. Maybe so important Lister owners using bulk WMO are afraid to reveal anything about their means of supply. That's fine. Understandable.

WGB

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 04:00:00 PM »
I'm still setting up my system.
After I went through my Listeroid, I use diesel just to kind of break in the engine.
Been some sort of WMO from then on.
Filtering and PH are big issues.
New centrifuge is on it's way, filters to 1 micron.
I know guys that run WMO in trucks, haven't need to change the fuel filter in a year, after centrifuge cleaning.
Soon I will be running my shop, with the Listeroid and a Outback FLEXware 1000.
I generate a lot of used oil, trucks, tractors, etc. and have sources for more.

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 04:07:54 PM »
Vtmetro,
 I am guessing you are in the USA and if so waste oil producers get paid for the oil they produce.
In the UK waste oil producers have to pay to get it taken away.
So waste oil is available free for the taking.
That,s another one covered.
Still am I the only one using it as fuel for a generator?

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2010, 04:17:08 PM »
I'm still setting up my system.
After I went through my Listeroid, I use diesel just to kind of break in the engine.
Been some sort of WMO from then on.
Filtering and PH are big issues.
New centrifuge is on it's way, filters to 1 micron.
I know guys that run WMO in trucks, haven't need to change the fuel filter in a year, after centrifuge cleaning.
Soon I will be running my shop, with the Listeroid and a Outback FLEXware 1000.
I generate a lot of used oil, trucks, tractors, etc. and have sources for more.

Filtering and ph are not a problem.
You don't need a centrifuge to filter,
Tipping in wmo to fuel tanks on trucks is a different thing to running a generator on wmo.
The percentage of wmo to diesel in the trucks is very low.
If you put wmo in a generator you are going to be running it on a very high percentage of wmo or else its not worth doing.
The filtering and ph of the oil is not the issue.

vtmetro

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2010, 04:50:07 PM »
Fair enough. UK, US, different economics. But, there are exceptions to every rule, and that's where the interest lies. In fact that's what I wanted to know in the first place.

Okay then let's start over again, let me rephrase my first question, (not to you Spencer, necessarily, but to anyone who wants to talk about it):

I (and I imagine others) would like to hear from anyone who has personal experience with obtaining bulk WMO (not diesel fuel) for the purpose of generating full time, (not emergency use) (not from draining their own auto at an oil change), in the United States, (not the UK), from an unusual (not obvious) source (not an oil change shop or recycling dropoff) free (not for money). Don't name your supplier and town, but it would be helpful to learn how to set up a similar situation in a different town so we can be more like spencer and gab together about full time WMO use on more or less the same level.

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2010, 05:09:41 PM »
Before you get to excited about wmo as a free fuel in a diesel engine I would just say its good as a fuel in a burner or boiler to heat your house but that's as far as you should go in time and expense.
I would not set up a generator to run on wmo as the results so far are not good in comparison to using it for heating
This is why I what some more full time users to come in and give there experiences to date, or may be there aren't any.

LowGear

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2010, 05:13:46 PM »
Dang, I had this all really great reply ready to post and you asked the question more pointedly. †OK!

I worked at a body shop for a while. †They did a couple of oil changes a day. †It was a pain for them to get rid of their oil. †They would have welcomed you stopping by once a month.† My winter palace is on a golfcourse. †They're very concerned about their WMO getting spilled by the slam bang company that picks it up.

How many gallons a day do you require? †How many gallons a day are you burning at this time.

Casey
NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
Kubota BX 2230
Witte BD Generator
SunnyBoy 6000 + SolarWorld 245

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2010, 05:22:47 PM »
Dang, I had this all really great reply ready to post and you asked the question more pointedly. †OK!

I worked at a body shop for a while. †They did a couple of oil changes a day. †It was a pain for them to get rid of their oil. †They would have welcomed you stopping by once a month.† My winter palace is on a golfcourse. †They're very concerned about their WMO getting spilled by the slam bang company that picks it up.

How many gallons a day do you require? †How many gallons a day are you burning at this time.

Casey

I am not sure who you are asking
I can say I don't need any more thank's but I am using a lot at the moment minus 6 degrees last night.

vtmetro

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2010, 07:04:28 PM »
Before you get to excited about wmo as a free fuel in a diesel engine I would just say its good as a fuel in a burner or boiler to heat your house but that's as far as you should go in time and expense.
I would not set up a generator to run on wmo as the results so far are not good in comparison to using it for heating
This is why I what some more full time users to come in and give there experiences to date, or may be there aren't any.

Huh? Well that changes things 180 degrees, I thought you were saying you used it full time, it was simple to do, didn't need a centrifuge, and it was a good thing. So you use it full time and yet it isn't a good thing?

Well, I guess I'm not totally surprised. I was interested because I thought you had a lot of experience with a working and workable system. Sorry to hear it isn't. Now I know why you want to hear from others using WMO. So, okay, what are the problems you are having?

ps. as far as heating my home with WMO, nope, not interested. I don't want an oil burner. I use wood. In fact I just cut two windfalls up and loaded them on the tractor between this and the last post.

If I could run a Lister off of wood I'd do that, too, but I have yet to see a practical long term non-creosote producing low engine wearing woodgas generator anywhere.

I do have a lot of experience in wood chip gasification, and methane digester development, and both of those are problematic for engine operation (on our scale) as well, so don't feel alone.

vtmetro

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2010, 07:15:41 PM »
@Lowgear, excellent suggestions! I like it. No golf course here, but definitely body shops. Though now I'm wondering if WMO is a good idea if Spencer isn't pro, but con.

Don't know quantity per year needed, yet, but I was thinking something like 4 hours a day run time on a 6/1. I have batts and an inverter with auto transfer switch.

I had been thinking more in terms of WVO until I came across this thread and re-considered. I'm doing methane digester development, but don't expect to run the Lister off of that other than as a brief demo run. The experimental digesters are much too small for any continuous running. The Lister is being set-up to provide CHP for the digester shed -- the digester needs to be at 100F internally, and there are pumps and gear to power with the electricity generated.

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2010, 07:47:02 PM »
Before you get to excited about wmo as a free fuel in a diesel engine I would just say its good as a fuel in a burner or boiler to heat your house but that's as far as you should go in time and expense.
I would not set up a generator to run on wmo as the results so far are not good in comparison to using it for heating
This is why I what some more full time users to come in and give there experiences to date, or may be there aren't any.

Huh? Well that changes things 180 degrees, I thought you were saying you used it full time, it was simple to do, didn't need a centrifuge, and it was a good thing. So you use it full time and yet it isn't a good thing?

Well, I guess I'm not totally surprised. I was interested because I thought you had a lot of experience with a working and workable system. Sorry to hear it isn't. Now I know why you want to hear from others using WMO. So, okay, what are the problems you are having?

ps. as far as heating my home with WMO, nope, not interested. I don't want an oil burner. I use wood. In fact I just cut two windfalls up and loaded them on the tractor between this and the last post.

If I could run a Lister off of wood I'd do that, too, but I have yet to see a practical long term non-creosote producing low engine wearing woodgas generator anywhere.

I do have a lot of experience in wood chip gasification, and methane digester development, and both of those are problematic for engine operation (on our scale) as well, so don't feel alone.


I  know about all the points already mentioned from first hand experience.
If you can get as much free wood as you need then you would not need wmo heating that goes with out saying.

I am not telling you or any one else to us it I just stated it is best used as a fuel for burning for heat.
As for not using woodgas to fuel your generator if as you say you have access to free wood because of maintenance problems then I would say to you use diesel it's easier.
Yes I want to hear from people with real life experience of running a lister on a full time basis using wmo.
I have had to learn as I have gone along and I am generating power now with the lister,but the maintenance is high.

vtmetro

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2010, 09:53:18 PM »
Got it. Apologies for misunderstanding earlier.

Bottleveg

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2010, 09:24:11 AM »
Spencer, what problems are you getting from using wmo?
Iíve been using Ĺ micron filtered wmo in my Lister, but not long term. The only thing I find, so far and in this cold weather, is the engine will turn over for longer before firing.
Have you tried hydraulic fluid? I think this maybe a better option due to lower contamination.
Iíve been using wmo to power my c/heating boiler for the past three years and no problems.
Another option for those who are after wmo is vehicle dismantlers. In the UK vehicles have to be evacuated of all fluids before they go to the metal recyclers, this includes the fuel tanks so would provide a good thinning agent.

WGB

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2010, 12:44:31 PM »
I'm still setting up my system.
After I went through my Listeroid, I use diesel just to kind of break in the engine.
Been some sort of WMO from then on.
Filtering and PH are big issues.
New centrifuge is on it's way, filters to 1 micron.
I know guys that run WMO in trucks, haven't need to change the fuel filter in a year, after centrifuge cleaning.
Soon I will be running my shop, with the Listeroid and a Outback FLEXware 1000.
I generate a lot of used oil, trucks, tractors, etc. and have sources for more.

Filtering and ph are not a problem.
You don't need a centrifuge to filter,
Tipping in wmo to fuel tanks on trucks is a different thing to running a generator on wmo.
The percentage of wmo to diesel in the trucks is very low.
If you put wmo in a generator you are going to be running it on a very high percentage of wmo or else its not worth doing.
The filtering and ph of the oil is not the issue.


Some sort of WMO = All I have run in the Lister is 100 % WMO, hydraulic, trans, vacuum pump oil,† etc. after break in.
The guys running it in trucks are running more that tipping in WMO.
I'm thick as a brick, guess I'm not sure what your asking?
I run the Lister evertime I'm out there, almost everyday, lights, small air compressors, 110 volt welder, 3/4 hp water pump, furnace, etc.
Been running from June of 09.