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Author Topic: Oil change interval  (Read 38482 times)

bschwartz

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Oil change interval
« on: November 25, 2010, 06:40:16 PM »
How often do you change your oil?  I often hear 100 hr. changes.  Does that mean every 4 days for those running 24/7 ?!?!?!?!
-Brett

1982 300SD, 1995 Suburban 6.5, 1994 F250, R170, Metro 6/ sold :( , Witte CD-12 ..... What else can I run on WVO?

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2010, 08:39:58 PM »
Yes it would.
But there are other considerations.
If you use clean fuel you can go longer than used lube oil or straight veggy oil or used fry cook oil.
If the engine has a large sump that holds a lot of oil, you can run more hours than a little sump.
Original Lister's and some 'Oids have a complex sump with a lower area that tends to settle crud out of the oil, which was probably an aid in the days of straight mineral oil with no additives. Good luck finding any of that.
If your engine has an oil filter, you can run longer on a batch of oil. This is the route I chose. I rebuilt my engine and re-routed the oil pump discharge thru a PH8a spin on oil filter. I also run a Frantz toilet paper oil filter as a dribble thru bypass filter. I started out with a basket made from screen in the crank case door, with some cotton Terry cloth towel. We call that the 'Hotater Filter' because of an old favorite poster who tried it first. The dippers toss oil into the filter, the oil drains out and leaves the crud. Works great on the engines that don't have an oil pump. I ran my engine with a plexiglass door once to see the oil flow, its a lot!
If your oil runs at a nice hot temp, like 180 degrees F to 220 F the moisture caused by combustion will be driven out and the oil change can be extended. I added an oil heater, which is a heat exchanger in the jacket water out pipe. The oil pump sends the oil thru this then thru the filter and back into the engine.
The crankcase vent is an important part of this. On single cylinder engines, it works very well, just inspect it and keep the flapper clean. The down stroke of the engine pushes vapor out the check valve, which closes on the piston upstroke. Twins don't work so well, so some have added a crankcase vent line to the engine intake manifold, like a modern PCV system.
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

buickanddeere

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2010, 09:10:58 PM »
Oil analysis is cheap enough.
As previously stated if the engine is operated up to temperature for extended periods of time. And equipped with both a full flow and bypass filter. No oil changes would be required. Just add oil to replaced burned, leaked and filter changes.

Oiler

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 11:54:24 AM »
I change it every 600 sometimes 700 hrs. The engine has 2900 hrs on the clock. No problems yet.
Oil pump is present and also a full flow filter.
1962 CS 6/1 for cutting firewood.
Armstrong Siddley AS1 for sale.

1937 Lister D

1918 Lister L

Tom

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2010, 02:01:13 AM »
My Ashwamegh holds a gallon in the sump, no pump and the mfgr recommends 250 hours. Since it is run about 200 hours a season it is an annual event around here.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 03:00:21 PM »
Tom;
When you change the oil, what do you see? does the oil look like it's layered, Like a cleaner layer on top, black gooey oil under, and a layer of carbon and crud on the bottom?
Do you open the crank case door and wipe out the sump with kerosene when you change the oil, and inspect the rod bearing or anything?
Do you have any filter media in the crankcase, or magnets in the bottom of the sump?
I'm not trying to get personal ... Just wondering how I'm doing compared to other engines.  :-\
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

Tom

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 05:17:15 AM »
This engine is the non-sump/no pump edition. The dipper probably comes within an inch of the bottom of the case, so the oil is well mixed. There are a couple of magnets in the sump, but nothing other than. I haven't inspected the rod bearing since the initial inspection and don't plan to mess with it unless some unusual knocking noises manifest them selves. The inspection cover was removed for about the first 4 or 5 oil changes. Found some iron particles on the magnets, but less each time. Since there was not much interesting to be found in the sump the cover was not removed for the last 3 changes. Who ever designed the oil sump drain in this engine should be shot, about a pint of oil is left in the bottom after draining. I use a pump to remove the oil via the filler near the dip stick.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

mike90045

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2014, 06:58:38 PM »
Cloudy rainy weather now - wondering about break-in changes, I did one at 10, another at 20hrs,  and I've got 50 on this.  Change it, or go for 100 hrs ?  I'll have a break in the weather tomorrow I hope

dieselgman

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 07:52:57 PM »
What does the oil look like? Is there any debris settling (or suspended in the oil) in your machine? Once broken-in we generally use 250 hours as a change interval suggestion. I assume you are using a dispersant/detergent modern diesel oil at this point.

dieselgman
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mike90045

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 08:50:32 PM »
Yes, using modern detergent oil, less than 200 hours on it, so I think it's still breaking in.  I think I'll do a change at the next break in the weather anyway. Can't hurt ;D

I did spot some non-detergent oil in the racks at Tractor Supply last week.

mike90045

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 09:00:04 PM »
...Who ever designed the oil sump drain in this engine should be shot, about a pint of oil is left in the bottom after draining. I use a pump to remove the oil via the filler near the dip stick.   

Mine has nearly a quart left in it, I try to squeegee what I can toward the drain, but still use a rag to mop it up, not enough thickness to pump, unless I use my shop vac  ;D

BruceM

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 09:38:34 PM »
My gravity fed oil filter box inside the big door gets a media (cotton rags) change every oil change at 200 hrs per my engine hours meter.  The oil is uniform and black.  Single sump Metro, splash only, 1 gallon max capacity. 

I use my homemade topsider to suck the sump dry, then swab out the bottom to get any crud left on the bottom.  Detergent multi-vis all fleet oil (cheapest I can find).  About 2500 hrs so far.

dieselgman

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 11:07:49 PM »
It is my understanding that these splash type oil systems were designed and engineered at a time when there were no dispersant or detergent oil packages in common use. The Lister sump was designed to accommodate and allow heavier particles to settle out (including a portion of the carbon and certainly any metallic or grit particles), and remain at the bottoms of the sumps for a periodic manual clean out. That gunk would remain in place even if you could drain 100% of the liquid oil, so I would not call for lining up those engineers before the firing squad just yet. Take a look at the extremely long and well documented performance history of these engines, consider the oil technology they were designed for, and especially factor in the fact that they are quite loose and forgiving when it comes to bearing and other clearance factors inside the engines as compared to any of our modern tight-clearance pressure-fed systems. I sometimes think that folks forget the difference between the two and try to apply the modern mechanical knowledge in inappropriate ways to these antique engines. I believe that this becomes one of the pitfalls that has the potential to mis-lead people to some incorrect assumptions. Perhaps some superficial logic from a certain well-known adversary comes to mind?  :laugh:

I believe in modern engine technology... this was all my early engine-building training (1960's - 1970's) including racing engine technology. I do not automatically assume that it can all apply in the same ways to the antique Listers and clones. As a matter of fact, modern oils can cause a lot of problems for these, especially to do with initial break-in periods. This is also well documented with some serious and widespread technical problems that Lister had with certain relatively modern engine models built in the 1990s. Use a high-detergent oil and void your warranty!

Enough with the soapbox rant?  :laugh:

Keep it Simple! Temperatures low, abrasives absent, viscosity and lubricity sufficient to prevent any metal-to-metal contact.

dieselgman

« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 11:20:55 PM by dieselgman »
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mike90045

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 01:44:49 AM »
Did an oil change today after running. Oil was quite dark, but it was not sludge.  A few rivulets of some sludge in the sump, but what worries me, is even after this, the 4th change, I've still got some fine fuzz on the 4 magnets from the sump.  About half a teaspoon full.  All the gears (crank, idler, cam) look OK, and no odd wear patterns or rough edges on them.    And then I found, caught on the side of the connecting rod, a 1" long piece of thin twisted string about the size of heavy carpet thread, could it be some sort of bearing packing, or are those all felt rings?  Anyway, it's back together making power again.  Using Delo 15-40.

 We're getting ready for a big storm hitting Wed evening, about 3" that night, followed by another 2" in the following 2 days, 4-6" storm total expected.  Yucch..  too much in such a short time, everything is currently saturated, and with more, there will be slides.

dieselgman

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Re: Oil change interval
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 02:49:09 AM »
I have seen some of the oil drain plugs sealed with string around the threads... all the other seals are paper, felt, or rubber.

dieselgman
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