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Author Topic: Starting struggles 8/1  (Read 4784 times)

wagspe208

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Starting struggles 8/1
« on: November 01, 2010, 02:29:31 AM »
I just got my 8/1 piece the other night. I got it started (after bleeding the fuel system, etc.). I actually sprayed just a squirt of starting fluid to get it to start. I let it run for a minute or so, tried to restart, did ok.
I went out today to try and start it. I figured it would be a breeze. Now, I just searched and found the thread on how to start. So, here goes...
I was turning on the gov to WOT, compression release, crank, swinging the compression release out, and it would not want to start, or maybe hit once. The instrutions say to let the gov. lever stay in the off position until after spinning up the flywheels, then swing the comprssion rleease lever out of the way. I have heard the injector firing. a tick, or cliick, etc. Is is possible I am flooding the engine with trying to start with the gov in the WOT position? Does a diesel flood?
Or is it likely that I have low compression or some other issue?
When it runs, it seems like the gov. is lazy. I read the threads about how to address that. Will this cause hard starting?
Thanks
Wags
Novo Type "S" 4hp
Lister 8/1
Engine machinist for 20+ years. Glad to help anyone out.

ronmar

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Re: Starting struggles 8/1
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 03:56:05 AM »
I crank up to full RPM I can get by hand then drop the fuel shutoff lever.  I then reach over and disengauge the compression release.  The injector usually fires 2 maby 3 times before the comp release is off.   I pull hard thru the first compression stroke.  That is probably the most important part, don't slack off the crank and try to keep the flywheel speed up till it fires.

It sounds like you still have air in the High pressure line.  What kind of sound does the injector make.  A little tink or series of tinks is a dead giveaway.  Should be a loud solid creak.  Find the point on the flywheel rotation that fires the injector.  Loosen the fitting up at the injector and rock the flywheel back and forth across the firing point with the throttle wide open(way easier than cranking 2 turns for every squirt...
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

wagspe208

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Re: Starting struggles 8/1
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 04:39:24 PM »
I'd say it is a little tink or click. Not a loud sound. Easy to hear, but not what I would consider loud at all.
Can I check pressure out of pump? Surely someone has a spec on that.
If pump pressure is ok, it must be injector. There is no fuel flowing out of the injector return line at any time.
Wags
Novo Type "S" 4hp
Lister 8/1
Engine machinist for 20+ years. Glad to help anyone out.

lowspeedlife

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Re: Starting struggles 8/1
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 10:40:25 PM »
Hi Wags,
 to check the injector & pump pull the injector out, turn it over so the tip is facing up & re-secure it to the injector line & rock the fly wheel past the injection point & you can see the injector fire off a squirt of fuel, it should be a fine mist not a dribble or stream. NOW THIS IS IMPORTAINT !!! the fuel coming out of the injector is under very high pressure. It can & will spray fuel directly into your skin !!!  fuel is like a poison, so If this happens it will be nesesscary to amputate (cut off) what ever part of your body the fuel is sprayed into.  so use extreme  caution when doing this. heavy gloves & safety glasses would be an exellent idea. If you get the fine mist the next things to check are are fuel injection timing & compression. there are multiple threads on this forum about fuel timing these engines.

  Scott R.   
Scott R.

5.7 liter diesel k-5 blazer. converting to wvo.
omega 20/2 listeroid

wagspe208

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Re: Starting struggles 8/1
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 11:53:39 PM »
Thanks for the input guys.
I already had removed the injector, and hooked fuel up to it. It did mist.
I then read a manual (I know, dumb place to go for help). The manual said to rotate the prawl or prawn or praw something out of the way to get the gov to max open point. I did this, and spun up the engine faster than I was, and also went through the first compression cycle per Ronmar and BINGO.. she runs with no help!!
Now... the gov is slightly laze. It was painted and that seems to be the issue. I can hear the weights clunking, so that seems to be ok.

Now, I am torn...open the can of worms and take the head off to see the condition of the valves/ seats/ guides/ cylinder, or let ignorance be bliss. I build race engines, so I am sure it will not be to my liking. That does not mean it is not perfectly ok for this application. But, it I take the head off, I am sure I will replace valves, guides, seats (if needed), maybe a little bowl blending in the valve pocket area, new springs, rebush the rocker arms, and IF the cylinder is great, run it. If not (which it won't be) new rings/ piston if needed, etc.
Oh, and it will need to be balanced also.
What you think?

Wags
Novo Type "S" 4hp
Lister 8/1
Engine machinist for 20+ years. Glad to help anyone out.

ronmar

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Re: Starting struggles 8/1
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2010, 12:06:46 AM »
Yep, the originals had that start pawl in place.  The roids don't have those.  If it is running, i wouldnt mess with it immediatly.  Next test would be if it can maintain RPM under load.  Put a generator on it and throw 4KW on it and see if it will hold RPM
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

Combustor

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Re: Starting struggles 8/1
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2010, 02:42:09 PM »
A diesel will tell you a lot about its condition without taking it apart. If it starts by hand readily at temps above freezing without hard drugs or preheat, then its valves and rings have no problems, and if it,s a real Lister, then there is a lot of life in it yet. A bit of big end clearance or piston slap is not cause for a rebuild, as it may outlive us both.
Give it a few hours at full load and unless it is blowing oil smoke, it's fine. With occasional maintenance they can do 40,000 hrs out in the heat and dirt. Enjoy something that does not have planned obsolescence built in.  Regards,  Combustor.
Toys include- Lister CS 8/1, Lister VA SOM plant and some Aussie engines.
   "Old iron in the Outback" Kimberley, West Australia.