Climate Warming a hoax?

[Stan]

Hey Bob....I've been doing some reading about the "corrupted weather stations" controversy and it hit me that it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

It appears the Exxon scientists fed our friend Inhofe some information way back in 2003 that a couple of dozen weather stations around the world (out of thousands) might have been situated in cities in warmer than "normal" locations.  OK, I've no reason to doubt this.  Quite aside from the fact the senator Inhofe obviously doesn't know how averages are calculated and that a couple of dozen measurements a couple of degrees higher than they should be won't affect thousands of other readings when they are averaged.  So unthinking (or mathematically challenged) people for the last 6 years have been bleating this "fact" out constantly.

Let's take this example of a prime plank in the Hoax camp's arsenal of weapons to "defeat" the dastardly scientific community.

Why don't the Exxon scientists set up their own weather stations all around the world, collect a data set over a few decades and then come back and publish their results including where the locations are, for the whole world to examine for accuracy?

That's only fair isn't it?

And before you say you don't want to wait that long to figure this out, just think about all the brainpower that Exxon has had working for them for decades!  Don't you think that if all those smart people figured they could prove the rest of the world's scientists were wrong by doing exactly what I have suggested, they would have done it by now?

So, "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" (occam's razor) or to put it another way, "if they could have done it, they would have done it" it's a simple as that.
Stan

[Doug]

Who just wants their life back the way we expected it to be years ago when our problem were local not global?

 
 
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mcy/1596168526.html

[mobile_bob]

Stan:

bless your heart, you put of a valiant effort, and for that i applaud you even if i don't agree with your position.

i don't expect you to believe Glen Beck, you can watch Keith Oberman and Rachel Maddow all you like
they need the viewers anyway.

and i don't ascribe to inhoff either, quite frankly i haven't really followed anything he has said.

i understand the problem with making hay over a hand full of weather stations parked by artificial heat sources
not really making a dent in the scheme of things as factored with 1000's of other stations,, "IF"

the guys that put together those reports included all the 1000's of other stations, including those that might be parked
outside of heat pumps in the winter,, that i don't know for sure, and the fellows that compiled this stuff seem to either have
lost their homework or are less than forthcoming with those details.

things like time of day, general weather at the time of measurement, other changes such as a tree growing up and shading the station
or one having been cut down that was providing shade, etc.

also remember this,

it is my assertion that it is not big oil that is screwing with your boys and their work,

big oil has bought heavily into AE on all kinds of stuff, from corn oil production for bio, alcohol for gasohol, solar panels, wind farms, battery, and just about ever facet of that segment, so that they win no matter which way the AGW debate goes,,, also for all i know they have controlling interest in the carbon credit trading as well,

we are not going to quit burning oil, and the oil companies no there is no threat to their bottom line in that regard so why would they fight global warming?  it is in their best interest to support global warming if not blatantly certainly behind the scenes.

as far as i can tell they are the only ones that stand to make bank no matter what happens with AGW

so i don't see big oil as the boogie man you make them out to be, less than saintly certainly, but decidedly not satan either,
and if they are into the AGW debate behind the scenes it is only to find out how to position their holdings to maximize profits
as any good business does if it is to succeed and continue onward.

i think you need to find a different bad guy to blame this on.

the only ones that i can see that will be hurt by AGW legislation is the little people, we end up paying the added taxes, and put up
with draconian regulation and have to pay for whatever regulation cost to industry anyway,, they sure don't pay for it themselves out of
their hip pocket,, yes they pay it and pass the added costs on to us, with a markup for profit attached.

bob g

[Stan]

big oil has bought heavily into AE on all kinds of stuff, from corn oil production for bio, alcohol for gasohol, solar panels, wind farms, battery, and just about ever facet of that segment, so that they win no matter which way the AGW debate goes,,, also for all i know they have controlling interest in the carbon credit trading as well,

i think you need to find a different bad guy to blame this on.

I seem to remember reading an article on Shell (one of the biggies) and how they were trumpeting the "green" investments that they were making.  It was an economic analysis of the total expenditures vs the gov't grants and tax write offs because of those investments and it all added up to pretty much zero net investment.

Now I don't expect you to believe me and so I'm going to assiduously investigate and see if I can find the Shell example.  Not that Exxon would be that disingenuous however, but maybe so. 
Stan

Here's one article, don't know the writer, evidently a wall street type.   http://industry.bnet.com/energy/100062/exxonmobil-avoiding-the-worlds-toughest-energy-challenges/

Another from the Center for American Progress, (whatever that means...haven't looked into them yet either, maybe they're left wing)  http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/03/big_oil_misers.html

So Exxon Mobile invested less than 1% of it's profit in green energy at first glance, more investigating in progress.  Pretty stingy I'd say for the top earning company in the world.

[Stan]

Who just wants their life back the way we expected it to be years ago when our problem were local not global?

  
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mcy/1596168526.html

Cool, would love to find one of those locally.  I could pay cash for it.   

Only 2 things wrong with our society today.  I was talking to a litigation lawyer from Calgary going up the ski lift the other day and we both agreed on these 2 as the top 2 things to change.

1.) We have trained a brand new generation that they can have whatever they want, whenever they want it, even if they can't afford it.
2.) We have uncounted millions of N. Americans running their own personal ponzi schemes, paying off one credit card with the next new one they get.

No economic model we know of can survive for long when those two factors are running simultaneously.
Stan

[Doug]

yup but we do it all for the ladies. Hard to pick up a chick on skate board..

It all makes perfect sence.

[t19]

Ok, this is hilarious (more so if you saw the movie and know the real context)

Hitler on climate Change.... Stan, Doug, Bob, regardless of where you see things, this is very funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-PI2vCA9ck

[Doug]

Andy did you watch any of the Econnomist videos in my link?

Please watch Thinning on top and Climate change and food.....

<iframe src='http://video.economist.com/linking/index.jsp?skin=oneclip&ehv=http://audiovideo.economist.com/&fr_story=6d6455225c0d26f93e62d1cca6e2b39968fbf3b3&rf=ev&hl=true' width=402 height=336 scrolling='no' frameborder=0 marginwidth=0 marginheight=0></iframe>

<iframe src='http://video.economist.com/linking/index.jsp?skin=oneclip&ehv=http://audiovideo.economist.com/&fr_story=99c9766668c294ad7c6048b444de3785443dd6df&rf=ev&hl=true' width=402 height=336 scrolling='no' frameborder=0 marginwidth=0 marginheight=0></iframe>

Personaly I don't think these guys are dummies.
http://audiovideo.economist.com/?fr_story=f3bb24bf00b55a124ac079d7f5d235bbe999f947&rf=bm&source=hptextfeature

[Stan]

yup but we do it all for the ladies. Hard to pick up a chick on skate board..

It all makes perfect sence.

Not if you're trolling for a skater chick (don't knock em unless you've tried em) 
Stan

[t19]

Hitler talks to his Internet Service Provider because Lister Engine forum is down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHtzvuk16Xo&feature=related

[Doug]

Pruit Igoe by Phillip Glass because somethings are done with the best of intensions and blow up in our faces.....

Minoru Yamasaki's last significant project the world trade center

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t29fgA5M7VA
Life out of ballance indeed....

[t19]

 Lake Erie is frozen over completely for the first time in 14 years!

Meanwhile, Vancouver is experiencing warmest Feb in 115 years!!!

[Stan]

And it was the warmest month in recorded history worldwide.....Just a few tenths of a degree warmer means more powerful lows sucking moist air up from the South, and more cold air down from the North, mixing over the great plains to make stronger storms and more snow in the midwest US and the East coast of the continent while drawing the "pineapple express" warm air current in from the direction of Hawaii to blanket the South West in wetter wets, and the N. West coast in warm moist conditions.  Mix in a good strong el nino and sit back and watch the excitement in the next couple of years.   

Easily explainable, just the laws of fluid dynamics in the atmosphere.  Just plain old simple science.
Stan

[Doug]

I'll donate a dollar to buy every Brazilian, and Indonesian kid a book of matches.

Let it all burn Halloween orange and Chimney red.....

Rebalance the equation and I'll grow plumbs and peaches full and ripe with all your essential heavy metals. Its probably too late now so FTW you reap what you sow.

[mobile_bob]

so if all the ice is melting from the north pole, where is all the cold air coming from to mix with warm air and get colder
to make for ice storms and snow storms?

damn that ice up north must start melting at about 20 below zero F!

yes Stan, we know about fluid dynamics, but the equation doesn't balance

not unless you canadians are sucking all the heat out of the warm arctic air with your heat pumps before it comes down here

 

bob g