Climate Warming a hoax?

[mobile_bob]

Stan:

it appears this "Mann" fellow, the one with the hockey stick graph that everyone is gaga about
refuses to tender is computer modeling to peer review?

yet everyone accepts his graph?  and no one has been allowed to review the underlying puter code?

whats that about?

do you find this troubling?

if not why not?

bob g

further reading

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/3021

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2005/03/03/hockey-stick-1998-2005-rip/

http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/03/sorry-deniers-hockey-stick-gets-longer-stronger-earth-hotter-now-than-in-past-2000-years/

[Stan]

His graphs (he has many, only the most controversial have been hysterically trumpeted by the right wing press) can be plotted with a piece of graph paper and a pencil.  If you want to sit down and take his raw data and do the averages by hand, all you have to do is look at the trends.  The conclusions don't depend on computers plotting probabilities or anything like that, they are just plain common sense.

I've said many times that the end result of global warming isn't the warming or cooling of specific areas on the globe, but the confusion of day to day weather.  However since you like pointing out to me that "Texas is getting snow" etc. etc.  so here's one for you.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/01/20/bc-cypress-mountain-no-snow.html

The unfortunate part of all of this is that we (the people of BC) now have to pay for this trucking and helicoptering of snow.  GRRRRRRRRR 

Stan

[mike90045]

Now the Vancouver Sun is publishing some counter claims, rigged data, cherry picked data, interpolated data....

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Scientists+using+selective+temperature+data+skeptics/2468634/story.html

excerpt:
 “NOAA . . . systematically eliminated 75% of the world’s stations with a clear bias towards removing higher latitude, high altitude and rural locations, all of which had a tendency to be cooler,” the authors say. “The thermometers in a sense, marched towards the tropics, the sea, and to airport tarmacs.”

[Stan]

Our government has been systematically closing down rural climatic reporting stations for years, but not out of any attempt to distort climate data.  They've been doing it simply because they are anti-climate change (they still think they will see some benfit from sucking up to George W. Bush) and  see no benefit in collecting climate data and as so it only makes sense to close down the more expensive weather reporting stations.  They have also been closing down just about all of our light houses, which coincidently were climate reporting stations.

As a matter of fact, it's the high latitudes that have been warming up the most.
Stan

[t19]

Stan, we have been closing down weather stations everytime we close down a military outpost... that started with your hero  Pierre and continued with Jean and Paul.  Harper has only been in power in a minority gov't for the past 4 years...  come on do you think with the majority of parties part of the Global Warming Cabal he could get away with the wholesale shutdown of weather stations??

And if you haven't noticed, GW Bush left office last year, and your man of change is now Steve's best friend

Stan, Im going have to call you on your statements.  It seems it was posted here that the people who tract temp in the north have stated that its not warming

[Stan]

Stan, Im going have to call you on your statements.  It seems it was posted here that the people who tract temp in the north have stated that its not warming

I"m talking long term not just the last year.  Canadian Meterological Society just posted the last 10 years has been the warmest decade in recorded history.
Stan

Edit:.....
Thought I'd go and get a document written Nov. 2009 by Canadian scientists.  Note....none of the 5 societies listed is in any way associated with any big oil companies.  These guys have no axe to grind, no interest financially in either the rise or fall in global temperature.  They are just government scientists, making an annual wage, paid for by you and me.

Dear Parliamentarian,
At the Copenhagen Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, the eyes of the world will be on Canada. We, the leaders of the following Canadian scientific societies, urge the Government to negotiate an outcome that will rapidly and adequately address climate change.
Current and anticipated impacts of climate change in Canada are well documented. They include loss of summer ice in the Arctic Ocean, reduction of snow-covered period, increased melting of glaciers and permafrost, increased evaporation from lakes and wetlands, more extreme weather, severe urban heat waves, increased forest fires that turn boreal regions into carbon sources, and disruptions in agricultural, forest, and energy production. Major initiatives and changes are needed to adapt to our new climate.
Rigorous international research, including work carried out and supported by the Government of Canada, reveals that greenhouse gases resulting from human activities contribute to the warming of the atmosphere and the oceans and constitute a serious risk to the health and safety of our society, as well as having an impact on all life.
Canada is one of the largest per-capita greenhouse gas emitters. Human activities must be optimized to significantly reduce emissions starting immediately. With vigorous action we can develop more efficient processes that reduce emissions, improve the quality of air we breathe and the water we drink, maintain the integrity of our ecosystems, and open new economic opportunities.
We must act responsibly. We must act now. We must act in concert with other industrialized nations. Our societies stand ready to provide scientific insight and advice.
This letter was overwhelmingly endorsed by councils or members of the following organizations of scientists:
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS),
Canadian Geophysical Union (CGU),
Canadian Association of Physicists (CAP),
Canadian Society of Soil Science (CSSS) and
Canadian Society of Zoologists (CSZ)

[t19]

Do you have a link?  I have searched their site for their data and there is just a statement.  These are the same people who say the polar bear is in trouble, yet the Dept of Natural Resources and the Inuit say the population is exploding as is the seal population

[mobile_bob]

if there were no monetary gains to be had, one has to ask why would these 5 scientists have spent the time sorting
and calculating to come to a AGW conclusion?

don't they have things better to do?  aren't they paid to do other stuff?

your asking me to believe they did the compilation on their own time? their own dime? and the 5 of the agree?

hmmm,  when was the last time you could get 5 people together to work on a complex project for free, using their own time,
and get agreement?

perhaps you canadian's are more agreeable folks than us unruly americans?

they don't have an axe to grind? no dog in the hunt?  ya right!

thats a bold leap of faith in my opinion to believe that to be the case.

bob g

[Stan]

Absolutely Bob....You wouldn't have heard much from these 5 groups but they are the most prestigeous groups of scientists in Canada.  They don't have any ties to any industrial organization, they don't go on speaking tours to make money, they are paid by but not "beholden to" the federal government, and they have no connection with any left wing commie tree huggers.  I'm just guessing as I don't know the exact numbers but I figure these 5 groups represent hundreds of scientists across Canada.

As a matter of fact we presently have a right wing red neck prime minister who rules our federal government more strictly than any dictator of any banana republic.  The standing joke "on the hill" is that if you want to go to the bathroom you have to have a pass signed by King Stephen himself.

He grudgingly admits maybe there might be something someday amiss with the climate, but he's not going to do anything about it until someone proves it to him beyond a reasonable doubt.  His policies resulted in crippling the environment ministry, hamstringing anyone who dares go against his will and proving his underlying hatred for anything with the word environment attached to it is legendary.  He's the guy responsible for shutting down all the rural and Northern climate reporting stations in the last 4 years.

Despite all this crap coming from the top, these 5 scientific organizations which are so well respected world wide they can't be touched without a huge political hit, have dared to speak out against this overwhelming pressure from the top and state what is written in this letter.

If you were to hunt for the rest of your life for a more "arms length", "qualified" bunch of scientists you'd never find one.
Stan

Andrew....Canadian Meterological and Oceanographic Society webpage has all the links.

[Stan]

Do you have a link?  I have searched their site for their data and there is just a statement.  These are the same people who say the polar bear is in trouble, yet the Dept of Natural Resources and the Inuit say the population is exploding as is the seal population

Don't know where they got their numbers...Maybe they are caving in to Stephen's directives.  Here's what I found from an international group.

"At the most recent meeting of the IUCN Polar Bear Specialist Group(Copenhagen, 2009), scientists reported that of the 19 subpopulations of polar bears, eight are declining, three are stable, one is increasing, and seven have insufficient data on which to base a decision—this is a change from five that were declining in 2005, five that were stable, and two that were increasing. During the meeting, delegates renewed their conclusion from previous meetings that the greatest conservation challenge to the polar bear is ecological change in the Arctic related to climate warming."

Its from the same site that your info came from but they didn't report "the rest of the story".  Here it is.....

"Some Native communities in Canada have been reporting increasing numbers of polar bears on land. Traditional hunters believe this indicates an increased population, although the increased presence on land may, in fact, be related to shrinking sea ice and changes in the bears' distribution patterns."

See how things get distorted when reporters only report the first part of the paragraph?  It really burns my butt when they do this .   In my opinion, telling only a part of the truth is tantamount to plain simple lying.
Stan

Oh....Here's the site.    http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/bear-facts/

[mobile_bob]

Stan:

i think you are suffering from what is known as
"scenario fulfillment syndrome"

i am thinking after this all comes to light they will have to come up with another classification
for the syndrome to cover mass hysteria or multiple/group scenario fulfillment syndrome.

bob g

[Doug]

I am Sparticus.....

Are you guys board of this yet.

[mobile_bob]

bored???

NEVER!!!

lol

bob g

[Stan]

I'm not a boarder, I'm a skiier.  I was riding up on the chair lift yesterday with a young snow boarder and he asked me if I had ever tried snow boarding.  I told him Nope, I can still ski, maybe when I get older and can't ski anymore I'll try it.

He didn't talk to me much after that.  I wonder why?
Stan

[Doug]

Unrealated to the subject but it reflects how I feel about this.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TRAVELOCITY#p/u/0/cjjYopci7Aw

A blind womanl at the old folks home where I did a job yesturday told me she started surfing uin her 60s and only stopped when her eyes went. Then she switched to a boggey board....