Climate Warming a hoax?

[Doug]

Every heavy industry we have except oil i seeing a decline in wages as we loose control of our ecconomy of multinationals export or wealth and jobs.

Where we do have growth in things like oil we again don't even have a Canadian oil company anymore.

We are going backwards and people just except this is normal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgw-V0LrYFU

Now there are new jobs that do pay well but the trueth is we can't squeeze 20 boddies into one job.

Money flies out of the country now and skips right over Ottawa and Toronto. Not even publicly traded companies anymore.

We can't even get an anti scab law in this province because big buiness says its unfair they must hire scabs to run the plants rather than negotiate lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHYAozdxaSM&NR=1&feature=fvwp

OK its out of my system for now .

Happy Christmas   

[t19]

You might be surprised, but I agree with you, I do not think that closing down our heavy industries or selling them and the tech to the Chinese is good for Canada or the USA from a national security perspective.  I remember the absurdity of our ships having to get parts that were no longer made in Canada/West, but had to be bought from the USSR, who the ships were hunting.

I dont buy the arguments that heavy industry jobs will be replaced by high tech... its not happening, nor is it going to happen because we are outsourcing that to India

I believe in Fair trade, so far the free trade has been good for Walmart, not good for the country

[mobile_bob]

its hard to imagine how a "high tech" job will ever build one of those monster screws/propellors for a submarine.

when the chips are down you need that foundry, and those foundry workers, and their abilities while enhanced by
high technology are certainly not something that is a requisite to getting the part made.

i can't imagine us ever getting into another world war like ww2,  where on earth are we to get all the materials and all
the manufactureing base up and running in time?  where are we going to get the sewing machine factories to convert to
small arms manufactureing?, where are we going to get all the foundry's to cast all the needed parts? crap our car companies
are so robotized and specialized, it is hard to imagine being able to repurpose them to building tanks and other stuff.

we don't even have the machine tool manufacturing we did in the 1940's, i am not even sure we have 2% of that capacity remaining
in this country. there were dozens if not hundreds of machine tool manufactures in cincinatti alone in 1940, where today is there even
one left?

how many aircraft manufactures did we have?  what do we have left? one of six or more heavy aircraft manufactures?

all we need about now is another (smarter) hitler to pop up somewhere on the globe and start another reighn of terror, with the
current political thinking in this country, we would want to talk him to death for 10 years while he was busy building up and taking country
after country.

folks say ww2 could never happen again, probably just like they said ww1 could never happen again.

you know it is going to happen, the questions are when and where.

bob g

[Doug]

Your right Bob.....

Trueth is if Lenin sat up in his coffin and started to speak I would stop and listen.
Because I am running out of reasons to think the status quoe will improve and further I will be expected to continue to give up more and more in the name of free markets and free trade.

The real problem we face is everything we buy is getting cheaper that 1972 home shop drill press sitting ina show room was 700 dollars today its 300. The only thing that has changed is the people whop build, move sell and buy it have less and less.

The real probelm is you can't make Iron and and coal and steel much cheaper ( in real dollars ). But you can make the labour involved cheaper by squeezing wages outsourcing and reducing the human content by automation. The tipping point where we can no longer aford to buy enough of these things to keep the factories running has been reached, and we can no longer borrow enough money to pay for it.

We can't cut taxes enough to compensate for the loss to the working class there simply  is not enough money available to sustain our satndard of living so the real ecconomy that you and I and everyone here lives and worls in shrinks. The people above us who used to gain from from the tax cuts and lower wages are starting to pich now too. The investors lost their shirts where the midle class spending orgy ended last year. Sure they got some back with the goverment bail out spending orgy but that didn't fix the problem.

We can't raise the taxes.
We don't make much with our labour anymore.
We can't find the money to keep the wheel turning.

We are left pounding the bricks.

Once the empty bellies start to rumble and the roofs overhead leak people will stop pounding those bricks and start throwing them.

Bob and I share significantly different political and ecconomic views but we both see the same problem. I don't think he has any solutions better than mine. I don't think anyone here has a solution that will put things back to the way they were in 1960 when the goverment worked, unions worked, buisness worked and mass production and mass consumption still worked.

War still works however its as good at soaking up manpower and industrial production than ever. Infact its even better at now thanks to modern technology than ever....

 

[Stan]

As for companies supporting the Conservatives, you really need to brush up on current election finance law.  Thanks to Liberal PM Crietien, companies are limited to how much they can now give, its as little as $2500.  Not a lot to buy a political party with.  BTW the conservatives recieve over 80% of their funding from Joe and Jane Canuck, unlike the Liberals who owned Canadian Big Business.  So why the change?  Spite, The Shawinagin Strangler did it to screw over Paul Martin, and in effect bankrupted the Liberal Party.

Andrew...I know the law well.  FYI, here's how it works.  Company "A" a big multi national, in a town near me, is a firm supporter of the gov't  and gets lots of "perks" because of that.  It's mandated maximum funding is set.  However, this company tenders out to many private firms, from one man operations to large  ocompanies/suppliers.  It's well known that if you want to do business as a contract or or supplier for this big multinational, you have to have ON RECORD (which is public) that you have contributed the maximum amount to the Conservative party, or you don't get the contract.

there's a way around every law, and this one has a loophole a mile wide which the friends of Stephen flaunt openly.
Stan

[t19]

\except as I pointed out the cons get most of their funding from private people, even before the Liberal changes.  Its the Liberals who are having the hard time because the big companies cant contribute like they use to.

BTW what you reported is against the law, if you have proof you should report it

[Stan]

Come on andrew, you've been around the block just as many times as I have.  You know very well that if anyone reported this kind of behind the scenes shenanigans, against the law or not, the commissioner of elections ( or whatever his/her title is this month) would just ask, show me written proof, and there will be none.  No large company is stupid enough to put something like that in writing.   If anyone swore out an affidavite against the company, some committee would start investigating the complaint and that would drag on for years.

For example.....A major oil company was recently accused of totally ruining a river in N. Alberta and as a result, the Alberta govt and syncrude struck a committee of 50 people with very narrow guidlines to investigate.  In the instructions to the committee were rules that stated any results had to be by concensus and as you can well imagine it will be decades before 50 people can all agree on anything.

 As well, the person/contractor who finked would never get another contract for work as long as he lived and everyone knows it.  Don't ever confuse "laws" with "justice".  Laws are artificial constructs most often based on political expediency, justice is an ethical philosophy, rarely considered in politics.
Stan

[t19]

Yes Stan, I have been around the block many times, but you seem to miss the point that I have been making.  The Cons get thier money from individual donations, not large company donations.  And most companies give the same amounts to both major parties these days because it is so limited.  What I find so interesting is you seem to think this is a recent event, it has been common place since confederation.  You vote Conservative and the Libs get in, you dont get your bridge, and visa versa.

Hell you live in BC, the home of Whack Bennett et al. 

And your concerns are the same regardless of which gov't is in, we have a situation where a couple are suing the OPP and the provincial gov't for abandonment of their duties because the police would not do their jobs and arrest Indian Protesters who took over a building site, leaving Mr and Mrs Brown to be Terrorized and abused by these native thugs.

Royal commissions are to make us feel good, not get anything done.  by the time they get a solution, people wonder what was the question - Air India, etc

[Doug]

The biggest Con I see.....

http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/nickelalloy/nickelalloy.asp

LME inventories are breaking up the sky. Un heard of levels of metal sitting in warehgouses in Rottordam and Shanghi....
Now get ready for this the price is rising......

Its been up and down all year but it s trading at or above the production costs of all producers ( of conventional nickle that is )

Look at Coppper, Alumunim and Iron ore.....
All have HUGE stock piles and all are trading at very high levels....

The free market system has been fixed plane and simple, the true monopoly has been replaced by thge wink and a hand shake.

Its not about producing and keeping costs down anymopre its about restricting production and and inflating prices.

See Now INCO was regulated and restricted in my fathers day. It was the last big monopoly after standard oil. It used to manipulate the prices like this and then drive them so low that any new compeditors would be crushed.

What has changed nothing? 

Where's our goverment ?
Where's our goverment ?
Where's our goverment ?
Where's our goverment ?
Where's our goverment ?
Where's our goverment ?
Where's our goverment ?
Where's our goverment ?

[t19]

Where is your Governement?

That would be in Ottawa, what do you want them to do??

Looks like the metal guys are taking a page out of the OPEC play book.

This is going to hurt

[SHIPCHIEF]

So AGW turned out to be the hoax we thought it was.
That does not mean the perps will stop trying for the brass ring. What was the end game anyway?
Can't they still get that with a new crisis? Swine flu fell thru the floor, so I guess it will be domestic terrorists who believe in self determination, and mention things like 'the consent of the governed'.
There is alway a new crisis around every corner.
Control of a rich and self determinate population is the problem here. Those effing middle class brutes are too hard to control. Better trash the world economy and reduce the north american continental population.
They are mucking up the ultimate theme park for the uber-leaders.

[Doug]

Its been something like 140 years since this was written nations have rissen and fallen and everthing that has happened risks happening again unless we learn to ballence wealth, freedom, democracy and property rights. Nothing will stop sudden violent change once we reach a tipping point and no one can predict what will happen once everything is tipped over and we have nothing but smahed pieces and rage left.

How quickly our ideals can be corrupted....

Arise, ye workers from your slumber,
Arise, ye prisoners of want.
For reason in revolt now thunders,
and at last ends the age of cant!
Away with all your superstitions,
Servile masses, arise, arise!
We'll change henceforth the old tradition,
And spurn the dust to win the prize!
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction,
On tyrants only we'll make war!
The soldiers too will take strike action,
They'll break ranks and fight no more!
And if those cannibals keep trying,
To sacrifice us to their pride,
They soon shall hear the bullets flying,
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

No saviour from on high delivers,
No faith have we in prince or peer.
Our own right hand the chains must shiver,
Chains of hatred, greed and fear.
E'er the thieves will out with their booty,
And to all give a happier lot.
Each at his forge must do their duty,
And we'll strike the iron while it's hot.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

[mobile_bob]

it has been the motto of the liberals for what seems like forever

"create the crisis, provide the solution"

when you ascribe to that modus operandi, you stand to make millions, billions and if you do a really good job "trillions" of dollars.

to these folks "government" much like a hammer see's every problems as a nail.

hard for me to see government as anything other than a framing hammer just waiting to tenderize my thumb.

bob g

[t19]

Gee Doug, your workers paradise has been tried and found wanting. USSR, East Germany, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea... ummm see a pattern here?

The words of the International are nice drivial but were does it say the people take risks with their assets so that those workers can work?  What is the reward for that risk??

And how does that relate to the Climate Warming Hoax?

[Stan]

Gee Doug, your workers paradise has been tried and found wanting. USSR, East Germany, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea... ummm see a pattern here?

The words of the International are nice drivial but were does it say the people take risks with their assets so that those workers can work?  What is the reward for that risk??

And how does that relate to the Climate Warming Hoax?

Since you mentioned the USSR, who was it said their workers appear lazy and unproductive, thus killing the system, but the workers say "you pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work".

Any system can be ruined from within by greed and corruption, look at our compatriat conrad black!
Stan