HP fuel line heat-block

[Irish Artist]

Now, here's another approach to your heat exchanger.

First, you bend a copper fuel line into a zig-zag configuration to fit into the block size your thinking of.

Next, you set it into a form the size of the block your after.

Then you fill the form with a casting resin! There are resins out there that have a very high thermal conductivity.

Drill your holes and bolt it to the cylinder.

Just a though. . .

Murph'

EDIT: Thanks for the info Doug, now that I think of it, I've always seen steel lines on engines. Hum, my furnace that is oil fired has copper lines. might have to replace it.
At any rate, well then, bend steel lines into a zig-zag configuration. . . .

[Doug]

You should not use copper line in diesel fuel systems. Something about the copper/oxides leaching a little and doing long term harm to the ip.

This goes way back to an old post from years ago someoen would have to search.

[Tijean]

Correct on the no copper in diesel fuel delivery. Cant remember the process of the problem; thought something about elctrolysis with moisture electroplatiing copper onto pump and injector elements. Probably not super critical with the clearances on the Listeroid system but worth considering. Certainly the injector pressures are tens of times higher than pump pressures on an oil furnace burner.  I like the idea of the high pressure steel fuel lines let into grooves in the heat contact blocks. If you are worried about heat transfer they can be silver brazed or even common tin lead soldered. Actually with the small throughput you are looking at of half a gallon or so an hour you dont have to transfer many BTUs. The epoxy resin would do the trick much handier I am sure or J&B weld which has a fairly high metallic content.

No experience personally with WVO but have viewed a couple of John F setups happily ticking away on it. Stop start on reg diesel unless you are in the tropics seems to be a given!

[dubbleUJay]

I'm starting to lean 2wards Irish Artist's idea with resin for simplicity ;-)
I need to ponder a bit more about the pros & cons tho!

[Irish Artist]

I do think the idea has some merit, but after doing some brief research, one might find the cost of the epoxy to be rather steep. At least the epoxy that is listed with high thermal conductivity. Most of it appears to be aimed at the high tech electronics fields for heat sinks and such.

But, you might check out some of the more common epoxies and see what their conductive properties are, might still flip the bill.

Murph'

[Oiler]

Hm; I think I'd machine my copper/brass block in two halves. I'd use a ball-end cutter to mill out an appropriate path, then I'd bend some HP fuel line to fit the path. This then gets sandwiched between the two halves of the block (a nice tight fit will aid heat transfer from copper block to steel pipe) & bolted to the side of the Lister. That way I don't have to worry about bleeding a copper block, o-rings, connectors, etc. etc.; all I have to do is bend the fuel line tight enough, and I bet that's easily enough done, with some heat.

0

I think this solution is by far the best. Perhaps use aluminium instead of of copper for better heat transfer.
Perhaps one could use a thik block of alu and keep the original line as it is?

[compig]

Well , it could be viewed this way , WJ obviously likes to experiment , so more than one method could be tried. After all , non of this is irreversible or carries any great consequence if one idea or the other fails to work for one reason or another ! Welcome to R&D.

[AdeV73]

Ok, I just can't stands it no more !

First, don't mess with the high pressure line. The concept of making something that is properly sealed is daunting at best unless you are an accomplished machinist. Even when you get done and it just happens not to leak, you still don't know if it just doesn't hsappen to flex enough somehow to mess up the pressure pulses.

I'd agree with that. I'm not sure what pressure the Lister runs, but it's going to be a bugger to reliably seal such a large area against such high pressures.

If you positively and absolutely HAVE to mess with things, take your existing high pressure line and cast a block of aluminum around it. Tthere are a lot of people out there with small foundries that can melt aluminum and even if you can't find someone, it is fairly easy to improvise a setup like that.

Another excellent ideas on many fronts: It allows you to mess with fire, molten metal, AND produce a useful product at the end! What's not to like? 

[Combustor]

         Hello again,
                        Amen to Jens' remark about not messing with the high pressure injection line. On multi-cylinder engines the designers go to great lengths to
         use the same physical length of line to each cylinder so as not to have timing variations to each cylinder. Oils under injection pressures DO
         compress by small amounts, and steel lines also expand during pressure pulses, (over 2000 psi in a Lister), so anything which varies the volume of the
         delivery line will affect timing and injection characteristics. The oil preheat will be needed BEFORE the injection pump to allow it to flow quickly into
         the pump barrel during the small fraction of a second that its intake port is open. Once you have hot, thin oil in the pump, and a warmed injector and
         head, you only need to INSULATE the injector line to retain this heat. Get on line and read the wisdom of the many other veg burners. It's all been done
         before, and it's not rocket science! Happy vegging,  Regards,  Combustor.

[dubbleUJay]

.........The oil preheat will be needed BEFORE the injection pump to allow it to flow quickly into
         the pump barrel during the small fraction of a second that its intake port is open. Once you have hot, thin oil in the pump, and a warmed injector and
         head, you only need to INSULATE the injector line to retain this heat. .......
...... Happy vegging,  Regards,  Combustor.

Combustor, now this makes quit good sense to me, thanks.

.........Get on line and read the wisdom of the many other veg burners. It's all been done
         before, and it's not rocket science! Happy vegging,  Regards,  Combustor.

Combustor, I am online to be able to post and I have read many contradicting "facts" all over the net! Now if everyone tells me to go online and read, I'll going around in circles as soon as I have a question, until of-coarse, I find someone with your wisdom ;-)

I thank you!

[listeroil]

Just out of interest I run a 8/1 engined 4.5kw startomatic on WVO with no form of preheating whatsoever. In the summer it starts fine. In the winter I give it a whif of butane to assist. The WVO I use is just gravity filtered and I only use the clear runny oil off the top. This is about the same consistancy as new veg oil. My engine is fitted with a thermostat which really helps to get the engine up to temperature.
The only problem I have is the filter blocking about every 6 weeks this is ok because i allways have spare ones in stock. The filters I use are coopers AZF058 as recomended by Peter Forbes. They fit straight in the old lister filter housing instead of the snake. The other modfication to the filter is to exchange the pipe that goes from the top of the filter to the IP for a flexible pipe so that you dont have to unbolt the pipe everytime you change the filter. One other thing worth pointing out is the bleed screw on the IP is a 6mm metric thread and a short 6mm allen headed bolt makes a very good bleed screw this is on a genuine lister pump but I am sure the mico pumps will be the same.