Author Topic: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source  (Read 23188 times)

Sukhoi_fan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« on: April 19, 2006, 05:47:14 AM »
This source is eclipsed only by the promise of oil from algae (which will require a huge capital investment) and possibly rivaled by palm oil, relative to yield per acre.

And it is "virtually impossible to eliminate" once it's introduced into an area. It is a proven substitute for PD.

Unfortunately, it is only found growing in certain parts of the country (where it just takes over once introduced), and where it isn't found, nobody will want to see it introduced.

The good news is that is thrives on land that has little use for any other ag purposes.

It's the Chinese Tallow tree.

We're trying to get a handle on how to harvest it economically. Any ideas???

www.hear.org/pier/pdf/nrcs_plant_guide__triadica_sebifera.pdf
« Last Edit: April 19, 2006, 05:54:35 AM by Sukhoi_fan »

Sukhoi_fan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 05:49:11 AM »
BTW, seeing that there is a WVO forum but no SVO forum, may I suggest starting an SVO forum since there is an interest here in extracting SVO?

oldnslow

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2006, 10:01:20 PM »
I didn't know anyone else ever heard of it. I heard where there is one of these and the owner is struggling to keep it under control. The state doesn't know about it yet and I have permission to get samples. I think he wants to destroy it eventually.

After reading the attached file, I don't know why it hasn't spread further. The USDA stated that the precise mechanism for spread is not really known. The paper further states that it was considered in the 80's for biomass and oil production on the Gulf coast.

Perhaps since oil is sky high, it might be time for another look.
Wonder what the biodiesel potential is for the oil. So little time.
Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

Dail R H

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2006, 02:48:53 AM »
   I couldn't get the site to come up

Thomas

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2006, 04:03:16 AM »
Never heard of it what is it?    Thomas

binnie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2006, 05:06:31 AM »
The site wouldn't come up for me either...What is this stuff? Interested....
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

Sukhoi_fan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 05:59:58 AM »
Sorry guys, I don't know what to tell ya about that link not opening for ya. I just cliicked on the link in original post and it opened just fine for me. Of course it is a pdf document and you know how squirrelly those can be in Windows.

Go to your favorite search engine(s) and do a search on 'Chinese Tallow tree'.

I searched and found sources stating a yield of up to 1,000 gallons or more of oil per acre from the berries of the Chinese Tallow tree. :o

Andre Blanchard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 373
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 12:46:21 PM »
Here is a link the the entire directory.
http://www.hear.org/pier/pdf/

And the parent page.
http://www.hear.org/pier/

____________
Andre' B.
______________
Andre' B

rpg52

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2006, 03:14:46 AM »
I believe I recall hearing it already is a big problem in the Everglades.  I think I heard it dries out the swamp, burns like gasoline and spreads like wildfire.  For what it's worth, I'd be very, very careful.  Quotes of fantastic yields ("1000 gallons of oil per acre") nearly always are either gross exaggerations or are dependant on other factors unnamed.  (Like, it took 30 years to begin yielding, etc.)  More Kudzu anyone?  How about some beautiful Water Hyacinth?  Everyplace has their nasty introduced weeds, but some of the worst are ones purposely planted because they seemed so useful once.  My $0.02.  :)
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Sukhoi_fan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 03:08:37 PM »
From all the research I've done thus far and the RKIs I have chatted with, 500 to 1,000 gallon/acre yields seem realistic, IF they could be harvested on a large scale. The challenge is harvesting the berries economicially, that's why no one has already done this. And it is a huge, seemingly insurmountable challenge. At this point I have serious doubts it could be feasible due to all the little problems. In China where manual labor is dirt cheap, they harvest by hand, but because of other factors their culitivation of Tallow tree berries is on the decline.

The current line of thinking is to get one of those tree shakers like they use to harvest pecans with. We're likely going to give it a shot, but this year's berries wouldn't be ripe enough until fall.

And because it is considered a noxious weed by many (and it really is), it would be a really bad idea to introduce them somewhere where they haven't already invaded.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 03:14:50 PM by Sukhoi_fan »

oldnslow

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 05:41:42 PM »
I think the most two plants talked about in the everglades in the past were Melaleuka and Brazilian pepper. They cover many thousands more acres (in Florida). The Chinese Tallow tree goes anywhere south of a hard freeze and prefers the swamp/wetland. It is more an interest to the USDA but the paper mentiones a couple of times that it has an ornamental use...even in California of all places. Since it is already in my county, I am not worried about "introducing" it.

I was thinking of producing them "orchard" style and forcing seed production with gibberellic acids. The younger the tree can be forced, the more possibility of controlling the spread. Oil could be extracted with a simple screw machine.

Sukhoi-fan, do they run diesels on straight tallow oil or is it converted into biodiesel?

still reading........
Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

Sukhoi_fan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2006, 12:55:50 PM »
I think the most two plants talked about in the everglades in the past were Melaleuka and Brazilian pepper. They cover many thousands more acres (in Florida). The Chinese Tallow tree goes anywhere south of a hard freeze and prefers the swamp/wetland. It is more an interest to the USDA but the paper mentiones a couple of times that it has an ornamental use...even in California of all places. Since it is already in my county, I am not worried about "introducing" it.

I was thinking of producing them "orchard" style and forcing seed production with gibberellic acids. The younger the tree can be forced, the more possibility of controlling the spread. Oil could be extracted with a simple screw machine.

Sukhoi-fan, do they run diesels on straight tallow oil or is it converted into biodiesel?

still reading........

I'm thinking that if it is economical enough to harvest to use it for a source for biodiesel ag fuel production. I don't know enough about it to address its use as SVO in a diesel, although you can certainly expect that if and when I extract some Tallow tree berry SVO a Lister will get a diet of some to check it out. ;D

hotater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2006, 04:15:07 PM »
I could be a REAL hero/villian in Idaho and introduce a weed tree that would kill off Russian Olives....another weed tree. 

Kudzoo, Clotalaria (sp?), Russian Olive, Mimosa, Pepper Tree,  water hysinth, English waterweed, Canada thistles...the list of plants (and animals) that have found new homes by using human transportation (and scientific influences) are expanding....as could be expected, as humans and their transportation gets more plentiful.    ;)

I *need* a landscape plant with these specifications-- Cold tolorent to -30 F, drought tolorant, fast growing, pretty,  and fire proof.
Ideas??
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

GuyFawkes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
    • stuff
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2006, 05:09:49 PM »

I *need* a landscape plant with these specifications-- Cold tolorent to -30 F, drought tolorant, fast growing, pretty,  and fire proof.
Ideas??

crystals
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

hotater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
    • View Profile
Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2006, 05:40:55 PM »
Good idea, but I think soil augmentation with organics will allow Quaking Aspens which are native in areas of top soil and moisture.  Crystal growth takes too much water.   ;D


  I'm allowed a half acre of "lawn" irrigation and the property has another half acre of irrigation water use exemption for fire protection.   By reducing grass with rock gardens I can create an artificial Aspen grove on the hillside by changing the irrigation patterns and amounts.  Now, the problem is cooling the water before use since it's 108F coming out of the well.
  I'm leaning towards insulating one of the 20,000 gallon tanks so the water is cooled by spraying in the summer and the same tank can be used for heating water in the winter.
   An hour with the Lister pumpset just bought will irrigate for a day,  13,000 gal/day allowed.  In the wintertime the water would come from one of the hot springs instead of the well and use (for heat) is unlimited.  Fortunately the place was plumbed with seperate 4 inch lines to the two tanks and they're valved to be able to split on tank off for domestic (pure, well water) and the other for a combo of well water for irrigation and spring water for heat.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.