Got my new engine!

[billswan]

hello everyone

I thought I would put up this pix for the members out there that don't know what the oiling ring looks like.

To bad I have the journal wrapped up to protect it. You all have to take my word for it that the journal is drilled and the intersecting hole is straight up under the tape that holds the paper towel to the journal.



at least this is how the crank oiling ring on my 10/1 Omega looks.

piperpilot3tk is this like yours???

Billswan

 

[NoSpark]

I'm sure it looks something like this. The elusive drilled crankshaft Oil feed on the right. Funny how the camera shows things like rust that you normally can't  see.


Now if you could put two rings together, one on the crank and one stationary you could pressure feed the journal.

[xyzer]

IMO..... The oil slinger is a good thing. You can filter the oil before it goes to the rod bearing. I would not abandon the hollow dipper, if the pump ever failed guess what....? The slinger will provide positive pressure all 360 degrees of rotation, the dipper only when dipping. This type lube method is used on all of the higher rpm Listeroids. Many other engines have used this method; I've seen it on early BMW opposed twins. I like the method so much I have a 6/1 I built a slinger for, wish I could have just bought the parts when I did it.  It looks to me like you have a 8/1 with a 6/1 governor spring. This is a good thing......
Dave

[SteveU.]

Yes effectively an 8/1 hybrid is a good thing. I am surprised CMD is not promoting these features.
Guys with the oil feeding tubes : BEWARE!
I was tweaking my "T" headed slinger feed tube for better clearances and it broke the cold solder connection to the horizontal oil feed tube.
So on your list of things to do when dissembled add silver soldering or brazing the upright distribution tubes to the horizontal supply tube.
If this would have happened in service under viberation . . .
Regards
SteveU.

[piperpilot3tk]

billswan, yes my crankshaft looks just like the one in your 10/1.

NoSpark, did your engine come with that bronze gear?  how many hours did your engine have on it when you snapped the picture? The crank rod journal sure looks pretty! My rod journal has scratches on it and there were some small metal shavings and metal fines in the bearing shells.  Not bad enough to cause an immediate problem but I should have listened to myself and not run the engine untill after the inspection.

Maybe, if I dont get laid off next week, I will buy two pulleys so I can run the engine at 650 RPM or 850 RPM depending on the load.  It will be interesting to see what kind of load she will carry at the different speeds!

[billswan]

Piperpilot

Take the crank to a machine shop and get it polished. I did it to mine and it really made the journal look a lot better than when it came apart. the cost was less than 20$ up in the mid west. Money well spent. Install a new shell and set up the clearance before you install both parts into the block.
 
Check the wrist pin bushing mine was out of speck right from the start!!!

Billswan

[NoSpark]

NoSpark, did your engine come with that bronze gear?  how many hours did your engine have on it when you snapped the picture? The crank rod journal sure looks pretty! My rod journal has scratches on it and there were some small metal shavings and metal fines in the bearing shells.  Not bad enough to cause an immediate problem but I should have listened to myself and not run the engine untill after the inspection.

No, I installed the bronze idler. I snapped the picture this weekend, with probably 50 hrs on it. My journal is looking better the more I run it, there are still light machining grooves in the journal. There were also scratches in mine too, not from debris but from careless handling. So you have two options, clean yours up, run it and consider this rod bearing a "break in/journal polishing bearing" or remove the crankshaft and have the journal polished and replace the bearings. Don't beat yourself up about running it, any slight damage was already done in India when they fired it up.

[xyzer]

IIWM (if it was mine) and the crank is in hand I would buy a new set of rod bearings, get the crank polished. Have the shop mic the crank and rod for clearance.  I believe 90% of the rod bearing problems can be attributed to sand from pre-run dirty engines not design.
Dave

[piperpilot3tk]

Well, the teardown is complete!  I am having a blast working on this thing, everything is just so big and simple  

I believe 90% of the rod bearing problems can be attributed to sand from pre-run dirty engines not design. 

Truthfully there was no sand inside the crankcase of my engine...zero, none.   What was in the case was iron shaving from when the inside of the casting was cleaned up.  By looking at the inside of the engine you could tell that someone spent all day in there with a grinder cleaning up all of the rough edges and sand pockets....and it looks good!  The problem is that the inside of the case was never properly cleaned with solvent, and once the case was filled the oil washed all the iron particles out of all the surface irregularities and nooks and crannies.  When the engine was run the iron particles made it into the two oiling holes in the top of the upper bearing shell.  The crankshaft bearings also took a beating and are showing some scratching and light pitting.  Even with the bearings getting some trash in them I bet the engine would have run a long time before I would have had any problems due to the low speed and low stress of this oversized 6 H.P. beast.  I have alrteady begun to polish the crankshaft and it is starting to clean up nicely, I may take it to a shop and have them finish it and mic it for me.  Now that the inspection is done I need to get a parts list together for the small stuff, and an offset idler bolt and bronze gear.  I guess I will have plenty of time to tinker with my engine since my employer cut our work hours and I "get" every friday off from now on, well I better get those honey do's done first!

Has anyone CC'd a cylinder head before and after removing a changover valve and installing a glow plug to see what the effect on the compression ratio would be?   I think a glow plug may have to be in the works.   

[matt]

Bob, yes the crank rod journal is rifle drilled to oil the big end bearing. The rod is also drilled with the two splash holes in the top side and it has the grooved upper shell installed.  I would be a little worried that the centrifugal slinger would not provide enough voulme to the bearing, even if it did, if the oil pump quit pumping the catch ring would run dry and that would surely spell disaster.  So what do you think, leave it as is or go to a hollow dipper?

I have some points to make on this....

1, I recommend close inspection of the oil output tube that feeds the oil pickup ring. If you manually pump the oil with the lever, the oil only dribbles down the side of the tube. There does not seem to be enough pressure to shoot it out and make the jump across to the oil ring.
Having said that, the pump would probably pump harder when the engine is running and may make the jump. I am thinking of restricting the flow tube that feeds the roller bearing on the other side to help feed the oil ring better. Both roller bearings do not really need this special oil feed tube to them as there is a plenty enough oil splashing around in there to oil them. They are very exposed to the splashing. The single sump Listeroids just leave these roller bearings to splash lube anyway.


2, If the pump was to fail, the extra holes in the top of the big end bearing would only be of benefit for a short time. This is because the top sump would eventually empty down into the lower sump from the slinging action of the oil dipper...which would eventually have nothing left to sling!! Maybe we could avoid this by filling up the oil level right up full until the dipper level similar to the models with the single sump. Maybe then the engine would survive without an oil pump. Then hopefully the amount of oil flying around in there may be enough to be caught in the oil ring without the pump working. I live in hope that it will.

regards,
Matt

[NoSpark]

Matt, those are two great points I forgot to bring up to piper. Its hard to tell in my picture but I bent the ring feed tube so that it just clears the ring after making the same observation. They had it favoring the TRB which I think gets plenty of splash lube. I planned on doing some restricting also not knowing if it was still dribbling like you said.

As for oil, my sump is completely filled right up to the top of the dipper, so it can't run dry even if the pump fails.

[SteveU.]

Matt and NoSpark good points about the ring feed T headed tube. I agree it should bias toward the rod bearing feed.
But again BEWARE: it was bending it over when it broke loose from the horizontal supply tube on me.

Also when I've tried running my total crankcase oil level higher than 3/8" - 8mm up on the dip stick the windage from the big crankshaft mounted counter weights whips the oil so much I then get slobbering.
I intend to add a sheet metal dipstick slotted drip pan ( windage tray) above the surface of the upper crankcase floor  like the  some of the original Listers show pictured sometime in the future.
I agree with xyzer/Dave best for the bearing longevity to go with a plain upper bearing shell using the crank oil ring feed AND his hollow dipstick.
But for KISS trial testing I've now been running Without the oil pump, oil tubes, and just using his hollow dipper, Both grooved bearings shells and the stock drip down the connecting rod top feed holes with a higher crankcase oil level.  This seems to be lubricating fine too.

The oil pump way will lubricate as long as there is ANY oil left in the lower crankcase chamber and does allow some filtering capability ( as long as nothing in the supply chain breaks, leaks out or plugs up).

As KISS as the pumpless splash only route may seem; just  as soon as you lose that less than 1 quart/1 liter of oil level covering the rod dipper, things Are NOT going to be getting lubed anymore. But real GOOD to know this system will keep my engine up and running.

Decisions. Decisions. Eh?

Regards
SteveU.

[piperpilot3tk]

Good points about the oiling situation, I think I will go with the non drilled upper shell and a hollow dipper.  I repositioned my oil feed tubes when I first opened the crankcase door as they were not aimed correctly, no problem with breaking the solder joints....however when I removed the tube assembly prior to removing the crank I galled the threads so bad that I trashed the left half and now it is a mere paper weight.  Not to worry, I am sure a new tube assembly wont set me back too much $.  When I reassemble the engine I may try and restrict the left side to give most of the flow to the rod bearing.  I agree that the main bearings really dont need the oil to be pumped to them for sufficient lubrication.

[piperpilot3tk]

Does anyone know what the left side cam bearing is made of ?  Mine looks like it is made of steel, the right side bearing that is located in the cam cover is made of brass or bronze.

[billswan]

Does anyone know what the left side cam bearing is made of ?  Mine looks like it is made of steel, the right side bearing that is located in the cam cover is made of brass or bronze.

 On my Omega it is just a piece if cast iron.

Is yours drilled at the top to let in oil? Mine is now it was not originally.

Get your camera going and put some pix up on lister engine gallery!!!!!!!!!!!

Billswan