Puppeteer

Author Topic: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?  (Read 25130 times)

jens

  • Guest
Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« on: March 28, 2009, 11:25:25 PM »
removed
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 09:56:01 AM by jens »

ronmar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 11:36:13 PM »
Ever use a steam cleaner(pressure washer with heated water)?  The water flashes to steam in the combustion chamber.  this steam breaks down deposits.  When you pull the head on an engine with a bad head gasket, the cylinder into which the coolant is leaking is always nice and clean.  Too much can have an adverse effect on ring lubrication, and could also leak down and contaminate the oil.  I think an occasional run on mostly propane woud also provide some cleaning of the cylinder/combustion chamber.   
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

compig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1264
  • 1953 Lister CS 6/1 SOM owner
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2009, 12:35:16 AM »
Can vouch for the effects of coolant finding it's way into the combustion chamber due to a failed head gasket , have seen it a few times. Also , on high power turbo engines that run mapped water injection the combustion chambers stay very clean.
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

lowspeedlife

  • old iron for a new age
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
  • no i'm not no cowboy
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2009, 12:40:38 AM »
water injection used to also be used to cut down on spark knock in gasoline engines mostly in the 80's before they had better gasoline formulations. an occasional "squirt" of water mist would not hurt to keep the chambers clean on a 'roid though I don't think it is something i would install as a permanent accessory.

    SR.
Scott R.

5.7 liter diesel k-5 blazer. converting to wvo.
omega 20/2 listeroid

Bluecometk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2009, 02:07:47 AM »
I have been injecting water into carboned up gas engines for years. Just bring the RPM's up let the engines vacuum pull in the water through one of its manifold ports and listen to the engine if it starts to stall stop the flow or you can use a metering device like a valve or orifice. The powers of steam are unbelievable.After the engine dries out awhile and is running smooth giver a few revs and let her idle. Your job is done. Clean as a whistle.

just my two cents.

Bluecometk
Bluecometk

Yanmar 10 hp LA-100 DIY genset
2 MTU 2000 V12's
12 KW 4cyl Kolor Genset
35 KW  4cyl  Cumins Genset
3 cyl  Volvo  bow thruster
Onan DJB 6.0 genset
Waiting for a proven Redstone

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 03:20:52 AM »
There's another thread on this waaaay back Jens.  The consensus was that you could "build" a water injection system using a spray bottle mister, using the "mister" part with an attached hose that would use intake manifold vacuum to suck the water in past the mister which would (strangely enough) convert the water into mist.

You can also send a very small, weak stream of raw propane in it's gaseous state from a small bottle into the intake manifold and it would accomplish the very same cleaning action.  Maybe a little more explosive than the water idea,   ;D  but much cleaner and more elegant in my opinion.
Stan

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 04:55:54 AM »
One guy got one of these subsonic thingys that make a fog when immersed just under the surface of the water and placed a dish of this in front of his intake.  He seemed to think it would work.    Here's a whole pile of stuff, can't find the one where the guy used a spray bottle mister though.   You can find all sorts of misters at the local greenhouse supply or garden supply place..

 http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/diy-water-injection-1066.html

Stan

Edit:   I think the Mother Earth News one (the first one) is the best for a Lister, you'd just have to drill a 1/8" hole in the intake manifold after the air filter.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 05:02:18 AM by Stan »

NoSpark

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2009, 05:38:24 AM »
Automatic transmission fluid would work wonders on gas engines. I would slowly dump half of a quart into the intake of a hot engine at high rpm letting it stall the engine, then I would wait 10 or 15 min so the ATF would soak into the carbon then do it again. Solved a lot of rough running and spark knock problems.
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

ronmar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 06:43:58 AM »
water injection used to also be used to cut down on spark knock in gasoline engines mostly in the 80's before they had better gasoline formulations. an occasional "squirt" of water mist would not hurt to keep the chambers clean on a 'roid though I don't think it is something i would install as a permanent accessory.

    SR.

Water and water/Alcohol have been used for a long time as a chemical intercooler.  The water, and resultant steam cools the intake charge and delays detonation allowing more boost.  The appropriate water mixture in this aplication is about 25% of the fuel being consumed.  There are kits available online that use a pressure switch to activate a solonoid valve to feed the water injector above a certain boost pressure.  I was contemplating such a system for my non intercooled turbo truck if I ever choose to take it above it's stock 6PSI of boost  The Harrier has a 145 gallon water tank for boosting the engines power in the hover.  That 145 gallons of water/alcohol mix gives 30 seconds of higher power output for a vertical takeoff with a heavy load of fuel and ordinance.

If I was setting one up for a listeroid, I would probably add the nozzle somewhere in the top of the air filter housing so it sprays downward into the intake manifold.  Because of the slow intake stroke repettion rate, I would reccomend a very small nozzle.  Too much spray will just collect on the inside of the manifold, and large droplets could cause issues if regularly injested.  Perhaps a plunger pump driven off the end of the camshaft could spray during the intake stroke. There is not a lot of intake vacume on the manifold, so I doubt you could draw very much thru a port on the manifold, particularly thru a small spray nozzle orifice.  There is however a lot of airflow during the intake stroke.  Pulling off the air cleaner and adding a venturi tube onto the intake, would probably work pretty well to draw in water during the intake stroke only.  A small single barrel downdraft carb with the butterfly or slide wide open and water in the float bowel would probably work well to inject water. It would be just a matter of selecting the right carb jet to deliver teh desired ammount of water.  A venturi tube that would plug onto the end of the intake manifold would also be fairly easy to turn out on a lathe...   
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

oliver90owner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2009, 09:14:10 AM »
Jens,

This topic is even covered in the Utterrpower CD.  I would recommend it as a good read but I have not got one.

You say the wonder of electronics; the problem was probably that you could not spell it.  If you can't spell it you have little chance with either water or injection :).

RAB

Too deep? Not sure that you would have used 'it'.

Ratman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2009, 01:43:53 PM »
Let’s not forget here chaps that even small amounts of water entering a diesel engine combustion chamber could cause an hydraulic lock, resulting in serious damage to the engine.
If you really insist on this method I would strongly recommend steam injection as opposed to water injection.
Personally I’d rather pull the head off once in a while and do a proper job. ;D
Rob
I like to think the older I get the wiser I become, but I'm not so sure.

compig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1264
  • 1953 Lister CS 6/1 SOM owner
    • View Profile
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2009, 03:13:07 PM »
Just to add , water injection was developed in WW2 for heavily boosted fighter and bomber aircraft engines. It allowed more boost to be used for 'emergency' power on take off by delaying the onset of detonation. Then it was 'rediscovered' in the Turbo era of Formula 1.
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2009, 04:28:00 PM »
Ronmar....the mother earth news set up depends upon the suction of the intake manifold to suck the moist air, not water into the system.  I would also be very leery of pumping liquid water into a Lister, all sorts of things could happen that you might not want, some of which are covered above.  I think the "mist" or even steam would be a good bet, although then you get involved in the energy to boil the water first.
STan

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2009, 07:51:45 PM »
Also to support Jens, when I missspel words, google asks me if I really meant "misspell" ?  Doesn't your version of Google do that too?
Stan

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Water injection to clean combustion chamber ?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2009, 08:08:57 PM »
Yup, I've got a big rig driver friend who uses acetone regularily, claims it makes the engine run better, cleaner and more efficiently.  Only in tiny amounts though.
Stan