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Author Topic: Redstone engines  (Read 151147 times)

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #135 on: April 26, 2009, 02:14:04 AM »
Quote
you simply would not believe what some folks will complain about, and yes there are those
that will see a casting parting line and figure it for a weak spot or a crack, when the reality is
it is just how the casting core halves  are mated.

quite frankly there are some folks that are just too stupid to breathe on their own, and the darwin
awards are given out with some regularity.

there is nothing wrong with being ignorant but willing to learn, but quite another to be stupid and unwilling to learn.

recently i came to CMD's defense on a similar point,
 
Bob I hope that you are not referring to the stuff you stirred with me, trying to say that I wanted to give CMD a bad name just because I want to do a teardown inspection on my new engine and take some pics of it.  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



MODIFIED BY MOD  NO NEED FOR THAT LANGUAGE OR PERSONAL ATTACK

Please keep things to facts and not Personal attacks
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 01:51:07 PM by t19 »

oliver90owner

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #136 on: April 26, 2009, 07:44:24 AM »
You crossed the line

I entirely agree with that.

I looked back and I see you said "you just about summed it up with the way the wife feels....but she will get over it some day.......I fully intend to document my teardown inspection. I will create an album and add all my pictures when I get started."

OK we now understand you are getting your ears rasped by yours, AND you said "ALL my pictures".

I could only understand that to mean what it said and therefore Bob was absolutely right to raise the point he made.

That said, he may not have been referring to that particular item at all, in his post above.  That said, what exactly are you going to do if you were to find a gob of sand in your engine and some of it in the big end bearing already?  Not going to take a picture? Your standards may have been aviation standards, who knew until you actually elucidated a little on the subject?  Maybe you were not being honest when you said all your pictures, maybe it was a post not quite thought through properly.  It happens.  Quite a lot (see above).

So now you have mouthed off in open forum, perhaps the correct thing to do is apologise on the open forum.  Second thoughts, not 'perhaps'.

RAB

t19

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #137 on: April 26, 2009, 02:01:05 PM »
Gentlemen
I have edited the offending part out of the post.

Lets keep the Tone of our talks to a certain civilized level, and not coloured with profanity and personal attacks.

Piper was well within his rights to comment on the state of his motor

Bob, your comment about stupid people is a little over the line, this forum has DYI's like yourself and those that want to learn.

 Lets keep that in mind when posting, this place should be welcoming for the newbies to this technology, its the only way to keep it alive and well
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

lowspeedlife

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #138 on: April 26, 2009, 02:28:23 PM »
I would have to agree with Jens here, reading words printed on a page leaves out facial expressions & the way the words are spoken, leading to misinterpretation.

quote Bob g
i would hope you would use some discretion, before you air dirty laundry

assuming there will likely be something not up to your standards

and we all know how a camera can make a pimple into a flaming full on wart, with hair and all!

this should prove interesting

bob g
end quote

Bob assumed this was being done to berate CMD though this was never said or implyed.


quite frankly there are some folks that are just too stupid to breathe on their own, and the darwin
awards are given out with some regularity.

there is nothing wrong with being ignorant but willing to learn, but quite another to be stupid and unwilling to learn.

recently i came to CMD's defense on a similar point,

bob g



Considering thier recent conversation I would have taken this as a jab at me If i were piper.

Don't get me wrong I like Bob, & believe he has everyones best intrests at heart here. (except maybe Doug) that was a joke, for those without a sense of humor, but I use it to show how it could easily be construed otherwise.
 
 
Quote
quote from piperpilot3tk
Bob I hope that you are not referring to the stuff you stirred with me, trying to say that I wanted to give CMD a bad name just because I want to do a teardown inspection on my new engine and take some pics of it.  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[/quote
This was altered before i quoted it , so the relevent points are no longer there but piper shouldn't have responded this way.

Phil at CMD has repeatedly stated on this forum that his engines do not have sand & other issues that most all listeroids have, He & I had this very conversation just before the forum went down last week. So i feel that pipers "tear down inspection" is fully warranted & I for one am interested in what he will find. (no offense Phil)

So I think we should all just take a step back, take a deep breath & move on, shall we?

  Scott R.
Scott R.

5.7 liter diesel k-5 blazer. converting to wvo.
omega 20/2 listeroid

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #139 on: April 26, 2009, 07:06:20 PM »
I cannot understand how buying a new indian listeroid and wanting to perform a teardown inspection to ensure all is well prior to putting it to work has so many people upset !  I also have never seen another web forum where one or two members repeatedly instigate arguments, talk out of both sides of their mouth, and pass judgment on other peoples intelligence and are allowed to hang around. ???   
Quote
If anyone was personal gripes about someone here just send them a private message and keep it off the thread.

Lets get back on track and hear about positive things.
  I fully agree and I am sorry for falling in the trap and allowing myself to stoop to that level.

As far as my teardown inspection goes, I am not doing it for any other reason than because I want to make sure my investment will run for many years, especially when I most need it.  I have never been the type to make photo galleries and threads to document the numerous major projects, rebuilds and restorations that I have completed.  This time around I thought it would be a fun thing to do given the cool factor a listeroid has.  Given the heart ache that many of you have towards me "documenting" my inspection, I am starting to have second thoughts.  I will do the inspection, but I may keep all the pictures and particulars that I learn in the process to myself.  I bought this particular brand engine because after doing a lot of reading and talking to people I think it is the best assembled Indian engine on the market at this time.  Notice I said "best assembled" I know that most all of the listeroid parts are made by one or two small groups of founders and craftsman.  If any of you were paying attention awhile back you will remember that I wanted to import some Powerline engine, this is because a few good friends and a few of my coworkers wanted to purchase some engines.  If we had imported a container full of engines we could have saved enough money to make it worth while.  Given the recent economic disaster (especially now that it has hit us) everyone else backed out, I than decided to buy a Powerline engine from CMD.  I DO NOT under any circumstance expect my Powerline engine to be perfect (hence the inspection), and nobody, including Phil, ever said it would be.  Phil and CMD say that their engines will be ready to run out of the crate, and that they will not destroy themselves while running during the warranty period; if you do have a problem they WILL make it good.  To me it was worth the $300.00 to $500.00 extra dollars to start out with an engine that has better features (like cast valve cover, CBW crank, oil filter, modern fuel filter, well built leak free fuel tank) than some of the other engine that are currently offered.  The fact that I bought an engine from Phil is just happenstance, having said that, given the level of support he has shown so far I would buy 10 more from him if I had a need for them.  All of this is just my personal opinion and I certainly do not want to upset any of you guys who are vendors and have engines to sell.  I am sure there are other vendors who sell good products and have good customer service and I am not trying to discount anyone or any particular brand.  I feel like I have mad the right decision, I was not hoping for the best, but I was fearful of the worst, just look at this guys engine   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D47ulHDSns.  I ended up getting a good one!
I hope this "clears things up" for some of you who are so concerned.

hotater

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #140 on: April 26, 2009, 07:42:37 PM »
 I agree with Jens, but it needs to be pointed out is *what* we're dealing with here.

 I own two 'roids and have documented them both, warts and all, but my point of reference was not to document a "Ready to run engine".

My intention was to document what to look for and how to fix it in an engine that is, easy to fix with the most basic understanding and even more basic hand tools to BUILD a ready to run engine.

 Both my 'engines' were "Kits".   Just as the engine featured in the youtube video was a KIT that included most of the parts, but some are better thrown away.  (I've never looked in a Listeroid fuel tank...why bother?  Hook up a proper tank and be done with it.  The same goes for fuel lines, the ridiculous'oil pump', spacers, gaskets, bushings and some bearings.)  Those parts and some others are only there so the Indians can claim a *complete* engine.  Not a completely good engine.

I judge Indian engines of any make, model, and variation to be good or bad by how close to straight does the piston travel in relation to the cylinder?  And, how much work does it take to make it 'right'.

I sincerely wish I had a need for a Redstone. I WOULD own one and answer my own questions, but I'd welcome somebody else doing it instead
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

mike90045

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #141 on: April 26, 2009, 07:53:53 PM »
> hoping for the best, but I was fearful of the worst, just look at this guys engine   
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D47ulHDSns.

Yikes, muffler hits fuel tank.  Fine if you run veggie oil and need preheat .

But, I'd like to drag this back to REDSTONES, since, the boast has been made, that they arrive "ready to run".  I'm pretty sure we all know the indian listeroids can contain anything, and if there is one importer of them, that IS having success with curry free engines, I'd like to know that too.

So I have 90 off grid acres in escrow now, and after I get engine house built over summer, I may be ready for a shipment of somekind.

Mike "still looking" for ~3KW genset.

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #142 on: April 26, 2009, 08:03:25 PM »
Quote
Both my 'engines' were "Kits".   Just as the engine featured in the youtube video was a KIT that included most of the parts, but some are better thrown away.  (I've never looked in a Listeroid fuel tank...why bother?  Hook up a proper tank and be done with it.  The same goes for fuel lines, the ridiculous'oil pump', spacers, gaskets, bushings and some bearings.)  Those parts and some others are only there so the Indians can claim a *complete* engine.  Not a completely good engine.

 

The engine in the video was a "kit" engine??? ??? ??? ???  This is not true according to the retailer's web site.  The guy in the video made comment that the Indian built engines are like kits that you have to work on them to make them right, and I think he has the right idea and attitude.  I think the engine in the video would have made itself into a pile of scrap in a few hours if it was put straight into service.

I would like to know if the redstone is ready to run, and a whole lot of other details.  Some time in the future I may be in the market for just such an engine.

hotater

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #143 on: April 26, 2009, 08:28:42 PM »
  I can't speak to the retailer's web site, I'm only stating what *my* expectations were and what my intentions were for the engines and what I considered them to be.  (entire writeup and photo links on utterpower.com)

If I were to buy a brand new _____fill in the blank___ genset from a major manufacturer, I would never think to check for grit under the piston skirt, but if it's goobered up with green goo and assembled  with washers cut out of old tin cans, I sure will!

What is really needed, to my thinking,  is an honest look at the foundations in order to put together a meaningful impression of the engine as a whole.  *Details* like running on for a minute about a fuel tank with rust in it (in the 8-1 vid) means absolutely nothing.  It more than likely leaks too, or soon will. 
  I still think the piece of wood in the fuel filter was proof it filtered out what it was designed to..... ;D

I have great hopes for the Redstone, but without assessments by people looking for the 'right' things, it could become just a contest for nit-pickers.  I feel that's a horse that doesn't have to be whipped anymore.    They're  *INdian* engines!  They have far enough to go to perfection to last our lifetimes, I think.    ;)

The WORST job in the world has to be as an Indian astronaut.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

mobile_bob

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #144 on: April 27, 2009, 02:00:57 AM »
in an effort to clear the air a bit :)

first of all i appologize for blowing anyone's dress up over their heads!

specifically piperpilot i may have been a bit more blunt with you than you felt necessary, and if the shoe does not fit
simply cast it aside.

now to respond to some of your concerns

"I cannot understand how buying a new indian listeroid and wanting to perform a teardown inspection to ensure all is well prior to putting it to work has so many people upset !"

i know of no one that is upset with you wanting to do that, i certainly have no issue with you doing so, and quite frankly would suggest you do just that!

"I also have never seen another web forum where one or two members repeatedly instigate arguments, talk out of both sides of their mouth, and pass judgment on other peoples intelligence and are allowed to hang around.  "

fair enough, but perhaps you have misunderstood my point, or perhaps i did not explain my position well enough?
first of all there is no shame in being ignorant, we all are ignorant on all sorts of issues, i know of no one that is an expert on all things
and quite frankly those that are experts on certain things often times are lacking in other area's because of the time they have taken
away from lifes lessons to become an expert in their fields.

i will be the first to admit i am ignorant of many things, but there is a difference being ignorant and being stupid

being ignorant is not generally a terminal problem, one can choose to not be ignorant and set out learn all he can on the subject he
is interested and ignorant in,, and that is a commendable thing in my opinion.

what i have little patience with are those that choose to remain ignorant, will not listen, won't read, try to learn, and take offense to being
instructed, because they know better when clearly they are ignorant and will do nothing about it. thats stupid in my opinion.

anytime i am called stupid or ignorant, i generally try to take a step back and see if maybe i am missing something.

now let me take this opportunity to state, "piperpilot, i don't think you are stupid or ignorant, i don't know you well enough to make that
assessment"

i truely wish you well with your new purchase, it looks really nicely done, and i am sure Phil will take good care of you should you need help.

my only point was, let Phil have every opportunity to make right, there really is no need to post picture of some sand under a corner in the crankcase, or a rough lifter, etc.

after a while it becomes what Thoreau explains as

(paraphrased here)

" i have no need for the newspaper, how many barn fires do i need to read about, how many wrecks, deaths...
after a while one comes to understand that once you have read about one barn fire, there is no need to read about more..."

btw, i strongly suspect your engine will be a quantum leap over any container load of engines you would have imported on your own
and when the chips are all down probably less money spent by going to CMD.

anyway, in closing
please accept my appologies, and don't let my comments upset you further.

bob g

 

otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

JohnF13

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #145 on: April 27, 2009, 09:23:13 PM »
O.K., the slow old man is back.....told ya life would intervene!

Got the engine and head mounted on the frame today and did a test run with a belt around the flywheel on the engine and an 8.4" pulley on the genhead.  Obviously it was way too slow (engine flywheel is "about" 21.3) , my calcs. indicate that the engine speed was only around 750 to give 120 volts with that configuration.  However, it all worked well (and that was the point of this exercise) so I just need to get me a bigger genhead pulley to do a real test.  And before you ask - pics will be taken shortly and put up on my website.
John F
2 x 6/1 JKSON.  1 x 10/1 JKSON, 1 x 27hp Changfa, 1 x 28hp AG295, 1 genuine 1939 SOM, a couple of others in test mode and a Hercules Multu-fuel still in the box.

Wizard

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #146 on: April 27, 2009, 11:08:12 PM »
Interested to see it run and with correct pulley as well. :)

Note that youtube now have good quality viewing in HQ mode.

Cheers, Wizard

mobile_bob

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #147 on: April 28, 2009, 12:36:52 AM »
finally some reports from the redstone, look forward to seeing some pics

bob g
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mike90045

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #148 on: April 28, 2009, 05:34:33 PM »
in an effort to clear the air a bit :)

first of all i appologize for blowing anyone's dress up over their heads!


It's a Kilt  !

mobile_bob

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Re: Redstone engines
« Reply #149 on: April 28, 2009, 08:05:34 PM »
lmao :)

bob g
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