Puppeteer

Poll

So How do you feel as compared to past bad times

I feel good ( soft and squshy as ever )
7 (25%)
I am thinning but still optomistic ( have job just belt tightening )
11 (39.3%)
Worried ( have job but money is very short )
7 (25%)
Scared ( No work, living on Pogey )
2 (7.1%)
Scared Shitless ( POgey is used up have eaten the dog fat neighbor looks he's tender )
1 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: March 18, 2009, 11:04:33 PM

Author Topic: Worst recession Ever  (Read 20943 times)

Doug

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2009, 08:32:58 PM »
I need a piece of something that has yet to produce anything other than paper is my point. Its a great idea and might work if it coul find a purpose. But technology without purpose is kind of useless if you have to invent a purpose and chase money around to create a demand

We have to get out of the mind sets that lead to dead end rat races pushing piles of paper and money around in circles

Here is another question:
Do you actualy need to drive more the 30 or 40 miles at a time for a reason?
If so why?
A couple of generations ago that would be considered madness if all you were doing was getting groceries or trying to get to work.

An interesting video I would like to share:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcSxL8GUn-g&feature=PlayList&p=79184D14F872B80D&index=0
If we are going to get off topic and turn my light hearted poke at the great depression of 2009 into something serious lets talk about the whole system, how we got here and what we actualy need to be happy. 
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lowspeedlife

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2009, 09:52:17 PM »
Doug, I get your point. Technology is a funny thing, obviously the best way it would work is tech is invented to fill a purpose. But sometimes tech comes along & people find out about it & it inspires them or they see the obvious application that other had not.
I agree that pushing paper doesn't do alot to create anything except full trash cans.

 Do I need to drive 40 or more miles, if is wish to keep my house & feed my family, then I have to get back home the 50 to 60 miles that I may have to drive before I can recharge my car.  The Washington metro area is fairly large & congested. Being an electrician in construction my drive changes fom time to time.
 When I bought my house I bought where I could afford & what I could afford, people haven't done that for a while. And when times got tough I worked two jobs & did side work to keep it.
 a couple of generations ago having a computer in your house & 300 TV channels would also be considered maddness. I have basic cable  & times change.
My parents left the coal fields of west virginia to give me & my sisters better than they had & wouldn't live where I would do less for my children.

Maybe I'm just touchy since I'm one of the two in your poll that have lost thier job & maybe this is a poor subject to poke light hearted fun at.

Scott R.
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Doug

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2009, 11:38:17 PM »
There is part of our problem Scott in a well thought out and progressive world you could take a commuter train.

Its not the technology that is the problem its the way we use it.

I think we only got into trouble in the late 60s when we started to throw everything away and decided to stop fixing things. Since then its been an ever increasing selection of toss away garbage you have no hope in being able to repair. Its all bought on credit because there is no way the working man can actualy afford to buy all this crap just to toss it away and you are told its patriotic and good to consume.

Thats just doesn't make sence does it?

Why the hell should we work like mad, to get in debt, to buy stuff we throw away, so we can behave like rich people with stuff we don't realy need, can't be fixed and we could live without anyway?

Think about it when was the last time you remember things making sence?
I bet it was before the garbage orgy began.

I have drawn a line in the snow.
I will not buy a cell phone or any gizmo that follows.
I will leave within my means.
I will save 4 months wages.
I will give to charity.
And I will try and fix what I have or I will buy old/used things I can fix.
I will demand quality made in Canada when ever I can buy it
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lowspeedlife

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2009, 12:05:58 AM »
I like jus about everything you said there Doug, Trains don't go every where, the ones in this area have to be government subsidized or they wouldn't run at all.
I don't throw anything away, just ask my wife.  I don't have any credit cards, if i can't pay for it now, i most likely don't need it.
I've never bought a new car, dish washer, washer, dryer, stove & i buy my work clothes at goodwill. I do have a cell phone on the cheapest plan possible.
My several months salary is all i've got right now, & i give what i can to charity. I will always fix what I can to the point where it may cost me more than buying a new one.
I do demand quality & prefer it from a U.S. source, but they don't make lister/oids here (now that was funny, don't you think)


   Scott R.
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Doug

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2009, 12:23:41 AM »
"So how much is my Monitor Top worth?

Single door Monitor Tops, in good, working condition, are worth an average of $250 to $400 in “as is” condition"

http://www.antiqueappliances.com/monitor_top_refrigerators.htm
So lets examine that a second, a functional 70 plus year old fridge is worth 250 to 400 dollars. What will my fridge be worth on its 20th brithday? probably 15 cents a pound today with all this advanced technology?

I wonder why we are in a recession

 
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AdeV73

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2009, 12:25:59 AM »

Maybe I'm just touchy since I'm one of the two in your poll that have lost thier job & maybe this is a poor subject to poke light hearted fun at.


That sucks, I can feel your pain. As a freelancer since 1997 (I quit my first, and last, job as an employee - 18 months into it), I'm pretty exposed to the market. I really suffered between 2000-2003, not helped by a new business venture failing in early 2001 & taking me for £40,000 I didn't have. I'm still paying that one back now, 8 years later. I never had a credit card until I met my ex. I've now got two, and they're both near maxed. I'd like to blame her, but I can't in good concience.

I am without a doubt my own worst enemy. I just paid 600 quid for 2 listers which, by any rational argument, I really don't need & can't afford... I have a racing car I don't have any right to be able to afford to run... and I spend 6 months of every year (er, well, last year & this & hopefully next) in a foreign country, just to get away from the weather! I've just been lucky that the last 4 years, or therabouts, have landed me working for a client who pays promptly, and who has stacks of work lined up for me just now.

Quote

I do demand quality & prefer it from a U.S. source, but they don't make lister/oids here (now that was funny, don't you think)


Actually, there's a good reason for this - and it's the same reason they're not made in the UK any more: The US/UK company simply wouldn't sell enough of them to pay the workforce a living wage... That's why they have to be made in India or China: Because the workforce are cheap. No other reason....


BTW, some of you reading this thread may be interested in a programme that was on UK TV recently, called "The Ascent of Money" - in particular, ep 6, called "Chimerica", looking at the interrelationship between China & America (hence - Chi-merica, geddit? ;) We brits do that sort of thing, you know ;D). Someone on YooToob has conveniently created a playlist for this episode, here.

Doug

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2009, 02:40:56 AM »
I must be simple because I don't understand why you can't get something for nothing or expect to borrow and never pay back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmLNV8WYAO0&feature=PlayList&p=AB1E505CF53E7A4F&index=0
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Stan

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2009, 07:46:16 PM »
I must be too Doug, I can't understand why a bunch of derivative traders at the huge insurance giant AIG are getting millions of dollars in "bonuses" for running the company into the ground.

Actually I've recently learned the present recession/depression we are heading for isn't solely due to arrogance and fraud.  We are also at the tail end of several cycles, including the "boomer spending cycle" and several more.

We couldn't sustain the upward direction of our economy (I'm talking about most G7 economies here) for much longer anyway.  Could you imagine what a 12 year old kid today would be looking at in order to purchase a house in 15 years at the present rate of real estate inflation?  Something had to give, and just like a con rod at peak rpm, the faster things go, the more damage is done when it finally gives.
Stan

Doug

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2009, 08:24:28 PM »
I expect the Chinese Ecconmy to fully decouple from the west and the Asians will be taking up slack by the end of the year. So many primary resource companies have been blow out of the water that I expect commoditiy prices to rebound fast.
I figuere 6 - 7 dollar nickel this time next year and 60 - 70 oil. Whats left of our manufacturing base is a better question. At least we have commodities to sell and the BRIC will be starving for them again in 3 - 4 years

What a crappy way to start year.

Bad mood now......

Might get sling shot out now and pick off a few of theose Smurfs.

   
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SteveU.

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2009, 03:32:13 PM »
OK Doug, you finally got me - I had to look up " BRIC". Don't forget Indonesia.
Good. Let them carry the load for awhile. Lets see how well they deal with the inevitable rapid social changes rapid growth always produces.
We're tired down here in the US and could use a break. It's gonna' take a few years just to begin to use up all the extra crap we loaded up on in the last 8 years.

Yes , and I even voted. The vote spread reflects what is happening to the friends and family around me. Most will be OK with a lot of belt tightening. Have had the third young couple have to give up and lose their house. (I told you so!)  Have had one cousin suicide out when his retirement funds tanked. Oh well. And most of the rest of us on paper are worth 30-50% less.
But it was all just beer foam, cotton candy or the pretty meringue on the top of the pie anyway.
We will be OK. This too shall pass. The suns gonna' come up tomorrow.

Regards
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Stan

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2009, 08:34:28 PM »
What worries me the most is that all our politicians are running around saying we have to "recover".  What they don't say is recover to what?  If they mean a world where the average n. american spends between 4% and 6% more each month compared to what they make, no thanks.  If they mean recovering to a world where bankers and commodity traders can swindle and defraud tens of millions of people out of their life savings and then get millions in bonuses because they did it, no thanks.  If they mean a world where some Russian mafia type can come so close to cornering the market in _______ (insert your favourite commodity here), causing wild swings in world value then, I think not.

You get the picture?  I'm all for individual rights and freedoms, but they don't extend to some stock trader selling a 90 year old friend's safe T-bill based investments for risky tech stocks, thereby wiping virtually all of his savings out simply because he neglected to tick off a single box in a multi-page form, because the trader wanted the income from the two extra trades that inevitably came as a result of this disasterous trade.
Stan

Free market systems work great in a society without greed!

SteveU.

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2009, 02:19:43 AM »
Aye to that Stan
F'n Greed and Indifference. For far too long we have lived in the cult of "Easy Credit" Al G.  through four different political administrations down here in the US. This has been the whole adult life experience of most people under the age of thirtyfive. They didn't realize they've been playing a big game of musical chairs. Well they thought back in the 90's and 20's (1890's & 1920's) that they had discovered a new economy too. We are pretty stupid to keep repeating this cycle.

Hard as this current change is on too many, I would welcome back a world of thriftiness, frugality and common sense. Use it up; wear it out; repair it; and reuse it again.
Garden seed sales are up 30-50%. People are revitalizing shoe repair shops. Community volunteer labor is increasing. Many good signs happening.

SteveU.
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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2009, 02:29:52 AM »
Milton Friedman on greed... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

30 years ago, and the problems (and solutions) have not changed, nor will they in future, because the constant is human nature, and the natural variation of human abilities; those that have/can will always dominate those that have not/can not.

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2009, 02:16:20 PM »
Import tariff's are the answer to many national economy issue's , IMO. Level the playing field so that the ignorant aren't tempted by cheapo import rubbish for which the only advantage is price. No economist is ever going to convince me that a protected indigenous manufacturing industry is not essential to a healthy national economy. Have a go though if you consider the above to be BS , I always welcome instructive criticism !!
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Stan

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Re: Worst recession Ever
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2009, 02:29:52 PM »
In our town, there's a meeting tonight to see if there is enough interest in starting a local farmer's market.  I know they have been going in many small towns forever, but I wonder if there will be a revival in the concept.  There's a push to make our farmer's market "home grown, home made", meaning no cheap chinese stuff.  Kind of a refreshing thought!

Arrrrgh.
Stan