Author Topic: My new engine room!  (Read 48337 times)

panaceabeachbum

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2009, 01:15:20 PM »
should you possibly enlarge the hole thru the osb for your exhaust  and bush the hole with something fire resistant like clay or steel pipe? Would hate to see all that hard work go up in smoke . Plastic fuel tanks scare the heck out of me also. Building inspector in our area would  halt progress for either of these . In most areas,  fuel tanks are required to be double wall metal containers.  Most folks put their tanks out side in our area but it doesnt get cold enough here for fuel clouding to be an issue like it would up north

I like your building looks really nice

Horsepoor

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2009, 01:01:46 AM »
Decided to build a shed and move my GTC 2005 20/2 listeroid under cover. Engine down rated to 850 RPM and has produced a sustained maximum power output of 11,200 watts for 30 minutes. I consider 10 KW the useful limit. It lived a good childhood under a blue tarp for 3 years, but as life goes on, a up grade is was clearly warranted. Wife’s horse likes to chew on hoses, the green paint looks like grass so why not taste it, and we live on a dirt road. I poured 2 ½ yards of 3,500 PSI fiber mesh concrete on 5/8” rebars. Foundation is 12” thick measuring 8.5 ft sq. Tin shed is made by Robin Sheds, Lake Wales Fl, rated for 146 MPH, sells for about $1,400 site delivered in Fl, including taxes. Perhaps I’ll also get some EMP protection.




First day in new home, lots of work to do.



Removed the 8 by 8 inch pressure treated timbers from the frame and used an idea from Chris (CUJET), surplus helicopter rotor blade isolators. They are designed to dampen vibration so let’s see if they can handle the thump of listeroid, time will tell. 3 inch Tapcons anchor the mounts to the concrete floor. Update, after 30 hours of hard running, these are holding up well, with no failures or fractures, Tapcons holding well, nothing has backed out, will keep checking.



Now to fabricate a cooling fan setup. Home Depot sells 1,600 cubic feet minute 115 V attic exhaust fans for about $60 drawing about 3 Amp. A lot to be said here on this: The original attic fan is absolute crap, it failed in first 30 minutes, took it back to H.D, and got a replacement upgrade on exchange. This new fan motor is significantly superior to the original: this one has not shut down nor failed no matter what I do. I’ve run it without the electric 12 volt fans as the sole cooling unit trying to get the thermal safety switch to shut down but without success. Therefore, I am feeling better knowing I have three levels of cooling fan failure before I have an overheat problem. More on the 12 volt system in a minute.



Very easy to cut a slit under the tin siding and inset the upper 8 inch of the fan base under the tin sheathing. There is no way this seam can leak when I apply sealant. Cut out a 15 inch hole in the center for the fan to pull air through.
 


Radiator is 22 x 25 inch and would fit a GEO Metro. I need failsafe cooling with multiple levels of redundancy because I have to work during hurricanes, the recovery phase and will be away from home at least 14 hrs per shift. Since the most likely catastrophic failure mode is the cooling system, my wife is blond, I decided on several levels of redundancy. Two 12 V fans (Felx-a-lite) back up the attic fan on the other side. Each 12 volt fan can handle a near maximum power load. Each 12 volt fan has its own 20 amp power supply on a separate circuit. One 12 volt fan on each side of the radiator. The hidden 12 volt fan runs all the time. The exposed 12 volt fan only comes on occasionally by thermostat inside the radiator at 205 F, and stays on only briefly. There is a 185 F thermostat in the engine that regulates flow. I usually get a 10 to 15 degree temperature drop across the radiator with flow rate of about 3 gallon per minute.
 


By now you’ve noticed the 15 gallon old air compressor tank containing a 50 / 50 mixture of coolant. I wanted to provide a pressure head for the Grundfos Brute three speed re-circulating pump. I figured if this thing springs a leak, hopefully it will take a long time to run dry. An unexpected benefit found is the large heat sink. Under heavy loads, it takes a long time to raise the overall temperature of the system which helps promote consistent running temperatures.
 


I read the posts by “xyzer” and others on thermostats, decided to try a 185 F thermostat, drilled two 1/16 inch holes on either side of the STANT heavy duty thermostat. This thermostat cost about $8 at the local auto parts store.



Used some Home Depot 1 ½ inch galvanized pipe, two flexible exhaust pipe sections to make the 90 degree turns, and a cheap auto parts store full sized muffler ($39.95) to run the exhaust system outside the shed. The brown stuff is donated Kevlar fabric wrapped tight with safety wire. At full load, I can place my hand on this stuff, it is incredible.



I found the long sections of flexible exhaust pipe vibrated so I braced and clamped everything down to the roof. It may not look pretty but it solved my shake and excessive flex problem. 



Here is a better angle which also shows the two massive 12 volt power supplies for the 12 volt cooling fans. Each Flex-a-Lite 16 inch fan is rated at 18 amps and 2,100 cfm. Each power supply is capable of 20 A and were obtained as surplus components copy machines. I get 11.5 V at each 12 volt fan on 14 gage low voltage wire which probably pushes about 1,200 cfm of cooling air on each independent fan. I find any one fan, 110 V, or either 12 V fan is sufficient to cool the shed, purge waste heat from the engine and exhaust system, and cool the radiator.



After the exhaust passes through the muffler, I used 2 ½ inch exhaust pipe to reduce back pressure, increase power, and improve efficiency. I’ll add some up pipe later on with a rain guard. Because I live in hurricane central, I wanted to provide some external support, so I used a piece of old galvanized fence pipe to brace the top.



To anchor the pipe to the ground, I cut the bottoms out of two five gallon plastic containers, used screws to attach the bottom bucket to a couple of 2 X 4s (Not shown) set on top of the concrete frame. This allowed the concrete from the lower bucket to flow into the square form under the surface. I poured six  bags of concrete into the buckets allowing concrete to flow out the bottom and fill the lower form. This thing is solid and I have since cut the plastic off of the buckets..
 


Here is view in perspective. Generator shed, lawn mower shed, concrete block with poured concrete walls tool shed / hurricane shelter, and elevated 60 foot long garage for the horse trailer and stuff.
 
I live in a rural area which is a low priority for power restoration after hurricanes. No problem, I realize that if a power crew can spend 4 hours working on a line and bring 10,000 people back to the grid, when the same effort where I live might yield only a dozen. Therefore, I plan for weeks without land line power.
 


Next to future projects and work in progress. I’ve seen Bob’s portable 6/1 (www.f1-rocketboy.com) – what a “chick magnet”. Every hurricane impact leaves people I like without power, some for weeks. So, a portable 6/1 built up to a 8/1 standard is a real practical project. The cart is a Northern Tool 2,200 lb rated utility cart. The steel I-Beams are 3/8 by 5” – very heavy steel five feet long. I used an overhead chain hoist to lift the 200+ lb cart up to working level to finish the welding and painting. Building a radiator frame. Trying to standardize parts so I plain to use the exact same radiator used in the GTC. I’ll start installing ST 8 generator head on the screw carrier I’ve already built into the frame. I’m setting up the generator base plates on each power unit the same, so in an emergency, I can swap out generator heads quickly. I want to be able to easily pull the ST 8 KW off the cart and bolt it into the place where the 15 KW currently lives. I realize the 20/2 will not be able to run full power through a ST 8, but it will provide air conditioning and hot water until I find time to make the necessary repairs on the other unit.





Another work in progress. I purchased this electrical panel add on kit for my ST 15 KW a few months ago from Tom at Georgia Generator. The link is http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Georgia-Generator__W0QQ_armrsZ1 He sells an ST dog house replacement box with meters for about $140. I removed the front panel with all the meters, kept the base, and plan on wiring all the switches into the panel when time permits. More on this in future.


 
What all this comes down to, is I enjoy working on these types of engines. Perhaps it was the toy steam engine I never got as child, perhaps this is what led me to get an M.E. degree that I really never used. This is becoming a practical hobby with quality of life benefits during an emergency. I welcome member input on my process and suggestions to refine my goals and objectives.
 



 

 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 12:12:37 PM by bruce »
GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm - ST 15
Metro 6/1 800 rpm on cart - ST 7.5

billswan

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2009, 01:39:40 AM »
OK, got photos compressed and up loaded to the Lister Engine Gallery and I believe I've got the URL link paste process figured out. But want I really want to do is paste complete photos into the narrative as others are doing so members dont have to keep cliicking on links. Can anyone advise how to paste complete photos into the narrative?

http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=2896

Think I got it almost figured out, one more test to verify then I will start my post.

http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=2892

http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=2902&g2_imageViewsIndex=1[/img]


Bruce here you go



After I post this I will post how to do it or try to

Billswan
16/1 Metro  in the harness choking on WMO ash!!

10/1 OMEGA failed that nasty WMO ash ate it

By the way what is your cylinder index?

Horsepoor

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2009, 01:45:34 AM »
OK, i cant wait to see how, I can call you if needed.
GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm - ST 15
Metro 6/1 800 rpm on cart - ST 7.5

billswan

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2009, 01:59:19 AM »
Bruce
 This is how I did it using a pc and windows. If you have something like a mac I can't help.

Go to the picture gallery where the pix is located, Open the picture in the size that you want to post, Right click and then pick the selection COPY IMAGE LOCATION and left click that selection. Then go to the place on the forum where you want to have it posted and place the blinking line in a good spot. Then you need to click on the Insert image icon which is right above the cheesy smiley face and leave the pointer set right on that Icon. Then press the control key on your keyboard and at the same time push the V button . The location should then be pasted inside the . The reason  this one won't produce an image is because I have removed the word gallery from it.

Sure hope this helps I too had a heck of atime figguring it out also.

billswan
16/1 Metro  in the harness choking on WMO ash!!

10/1 OMEGA failed that nasty WMO ash ate it

By the way what is your cylinder index?

billswan

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2009, 02:04:22 AM »
bruce

don't know why but not all of the post came through when I previewed it worked but not when it got posted

Billswan
16/1 Metro  in the harness choking on WMO ash!!

10/1 OMEGA failed that nasty WMO ash ate it

By the way what is your cylinder index?

Horsepoor

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2009, 02:04:48 AM »
Thank you, I am going to test the process in the message I already posted by modifying it. Thank you, working on it now.
GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm - ST 15
Metro 6/1 800 rpm on cart - ST 7.5

Horsepoor

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2009, 11:41:29 PM »
You asked me about the 12 Volt 20 Amp power supplies I am using. Here is a link to the source. Be advised these units are very heavy, about 40 lbs, so shipping will be a factor. I am fortunate, this company is local, so I just picked the unit up at the desk.

http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=15543+PS

GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm - ST 15
Metro 6/1 800 rpm on cart - ST 7.5

AdeV73

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2009, 12:06:21 AM »
Bruce,



I'm curious, what does the "showoff" button/light signify? ;)

Nice setup BTW.

Horsepoor

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2009, 12:40:10 AM »
I dont know, have not had time to wire everything thing up. In fact, I didnt even notice the "Show Off" lable, I wonder if someone in China was trying to spell shut off. There is a cheap chineese breaker that goes in the square hole on the right, so that's a good question, sorry I dont have a creditable answer.
GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm - ST 15
Metro 6/1 800 rpm on cart - ST 7.5

westcoaster

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2009, 01:53:45 AM »
c'mon,

ANYTHING to do with a lister is a show for the neighbours. Turn the lister show on, turn the lister show off.... Perfect!

billswan

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2009, 04:52:34 AM »
bruce

Looks like you have mastered the secret to posting pix!!

Looks like you have a nice project. Lister- oids sure can be addictive and extremely time consuming!!!

Hope all this work wards off the BAD weather gods!!!

billswan
16/1 Metro  in the harness choking on WMO ash!!

10/1 OMEGA failed that nasty WMO ash ate it

By the way what is your cylinder index?

panaceabeachbum

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2009, 03:54:37 AM »
that really looks good Bruce
MarlinPJones is the greatest source for electronics stuff, the next day ground delivery hear in Fl is hard to beat also

mbryner

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2009, 05:26:07 PM »
Nice setup, Bruce!  And obviously a lot of work.

Someone a few post back recommended flashing and insulation, etc. around my exhaust pipe.   Yes, I fully agree, but I just haven't finished that part yet.    I haven't been running the engine much this summer because the solar panels are now online.   And when the engine is running, most of the heat goes into the propane tank muffler, and the exit pipe doesn't get very hot.   The plan is an 8" hole in the OSB with metal flashing and fiberglass insulation around the exhaust.

Oh, about plastic fuel tanks: doesn't diesel have way to high of a flash point for them to be too worried?  When I read our electrical code, it talks about fuel storage, but refers to fuels having flash points lower than ~40 C (i.e. gasoline).

Have any of you tried to put a Listeroid and ST head in a new, permitted installation?   My county building inspector is giving me a terrible time about the whole thing, most recently because the ST head is not UL listed or certified by an "approved agency".   If anyone has any documentation on ST head certification, I would be extremely grateful.

Marcus
JKson/Powersolutions 6/1, 7.5 kw ST head, propane canister muffler, future off-gridder

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin, 1775

Tom

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Re: My new engine room!
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2009, 03:19:25 AM »
Mine was in during our final inspection and not a peep from the inspector. They were all, we have 3, fascinated with the machine while it was running to provide power during construction.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.