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Author Topic: National Gas and Oil Engine Co Ltd Model DSS  (Read 2722 times)
Burtle
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« on: January 02, 2009, 10:51:33 pm »

Hello all, just found this forum and thought you'd be interested in a engine I recently got my hands on, it was a non runner with no compression, it now runs and can be started first time on the handle, it gave a good fight to get this far though.

This is a large engine with a 4.5" bore and 6" stroke, the flywheel is 23 in diameter and solid. This is a reverse rotation, direct injection, cold start diesel. I am guessing it is about 6Hp at about 600RPM though RPM is adjustable via a knurled thumb wheel on the govenor. As you can see it's a radiator cooled model with cooling fan and oil bath air filter. This engine was built in 1935 and was extremely advanced for it's time.




Please ignore the makeshift exhaust!


I removed the head and piston to find all 5 piston rings were stuck fast, This explaind the lack of compression. They all freed up no problem at all and the compression is now excelent.


The crown of the piston at TDC.


And the cylinder head, as you can see there is no access to the valves when the head is off. The valves can be removed and fitted with the head in place. They are located in their own housings at either end of the head. It's a true cross flow design. The crown of the piston goes right up into the cylinder head and nearly touches the injector.


The CAV Diesel pump I've dated 8836FB at May 1935.


Given that the flywheel is 23" I was a little unsure of the timing marks. The FI mark is only 1" ahead of the TDC mark. Spill timed to this the engine wouldn't even fire, adjusted to about 4" ahead get's the engine started. That makes it about the same as a Lister CS diesel. So what is the FI mark?


The lovely cast makers badge


The cylinder head, Inlet to the left, Nationals own injector in the centre, and the exhaust exits underneath on the right. The rockers are wick oiled from pots on each rocker cover.


The govenor assembley, shame its all covered up really?


This is the massive big end arraignment with cast in white metal bearings, there is a dipper in the bottom bearing, and the con-rod has an oil way all the way to the top to oil the little end.

This is basicaly the same engine as Russell Newbery use in twin, tripple, and quad form.

Hopefully you'll all find this interesting, I have a big old 1930's Brook 3KVA 230V ac generator to be driven by it. It should look good when done.

Cheers
Nathan
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Fairmountvewe
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 10:56:53 pm »

WOW!  What a beauty.  Thanks for the pictures.
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, cooperate, solve equations, analyze a new problem, and pitch manure. Specialization is for insects.
Burtle
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 11:42:34 pm »

Forgot to add it started fine yesterday morning in -5°c temp and other than a little white smoke was fine.
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MeanListerGreen
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 01:17:05 am »

Very interesting little engine.  Thanks for showing it.
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listeroidsusa1
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 04:08:27 am »

That engine looks like a Moffit-Virtue to me. The M-V has the conical piston and the side mounted valves that actuate on the horizontal. I recently handled the transport of a M-V that was in all respects that I recall, identical. Perhaps that engine is a rebadged Moffit-Virtue. The Moffit Virtue was manufactured in Australia if I recall correctly. I had the engine in my shop for several months but did not attempt to start it as when I received it the engine was extremely side heavy and was a pain to stabilize for reshipment. It was a really nice engine though...

Mike
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Combustor
Combustor
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 10:18:30 am »

Hi there, Burtle, Thanks for the great pics of your National DSS. You have solved a mystery for me. Often wondered where Ronaldson Bro's & Tippett got their designs
from. The DSS is remarkably like my Ronnie CF except the head is turned 90 degrees, (valves to the sides instead of fore and aft)  R&T built a series of engines from 1930's
to 1960's to similar designs. The Moffat Virtue  mentioned by ListeroidUSA were built by R&T, and re-badged, at their factory in Ballarat, Victoria (Aust). The company has
been defunct some 30 years or so, but once could proudly claim they were "The largest engine makers in the Southern Hemisphere". If your National DSS is as tough as
their Australian clones, then you have a winner. Over here they were legendary!   Regards, Combustor.
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Burtle
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2009, 10:33:23 am »

Cheers for that Mike, you sent me off goggling it. As it turns out Mofat-Virtue re badged a lot of engines as their own, including Villers  and Ronaldson-Tippett.  The cylinder head has been used by many makers but I'm sure came from National originally, though it may have been Russell Newbery who designed it! I've seen pics of Ronaldson-Tippett vertical diesels with this head, though the rest of the engine is different.

Combustor, looks like we have come to the same conclusion!

Nath
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 10:35:07 am by Burtle » Logged
Burtle
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2009, 10:42:10 am »

You may also be interested to know you can get new parts for that cylinder head including new castings from here in the UK as they are still in production by Russell Newbery

http://www.russellnewbery.co.uk/index.html

Nath
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adhall
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2009, 05:39:36 pm »

Burtle,

Thanks for the Russell Newbery link. Very interesting web site--particularly the "Russell Newbery Register".

By the way, I see they are still manufacturing complete engines, too. It would be great to have one of those on a boat...

Best regards,
Andy Hall
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JKSon 6/1, 5 kW ST Head, 1992 Dodge RAM Cummins 5.9L Turbodiesel, 2001 VW TDI 1.9L Turbodiesel, 2006 Jeep CRD Turbodiesel, Yanmar FX22D Diesel Tractor
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