Lister CS 3-1, Compression How much is correct

[Coldstart]

Hello

I have just bought a Lister CS 3-1.
I am not able to start it.

It has not been started for many years and I guess there can be more than one problem.

I think the compression is to low.
Maybe the piston rings are stucked?

I can turn the flywheel by hand even if the decompression lever is off and the compression change over valve is in the inner position.
I hear no leaking from the valves.
Is it normal that you can turn the flywheel by hand when decompression lever is off?
I guess I have to take the cylinder of and check the piston and the piston ring?
Everything else has been very dirty and I have read that the piston ring also get dirty and can be stucked if you do not use the engine for a while?

Possible problem number two.
I have checked the fuel and the fuel pump.
When I take the injector out from the cylinder head and mount it up side down, I can se that the diesel sprays from the tip of the injector.
The diesel does not spray like fog, It sprays like a very small jet of diesel.
The small jet of diesel reached about 50 cm.
Can you please describe how a correct spray from the injector looks like?


Torbjorn

[oliver90owner]

Your compression may be restored by soaking in oil. 

May free off the rings or at least help to get some compression.  Doubtful but worth a try.

It should not turn over easily without the valve lifter in operation.  The areas it could be leaking are rings, valves and change-over valve (COV), as well as gasket and around the injector.

Your injector is definitely in need of some attention.  It should spray as a fine mist, not jet.  Beware not to allow the spray from the nozzle to contact skin - it can easily be injected and dangerous.

Probably best to look it over and get it right if it has been stood a long time.  The cam (oil the non-drive end) and big end bearing will be dry Oil with a oil can), as will the mains (unless you operate the manual lever on the pump).


Good luck and report back what you find/how you progress.

Regards, RAB

[Lister Rob]

Sounds like you have a couple problems. The rings sound like there stuck in the grooves and you may be able to free them up by spraying some loosening fluid down the air intake and when the rings are free you will need to change the oil. Another thing i would look for is a valve sticking and that would give you very low compression but you should hear the compression leaking up the valves or the head gasket leaking and you will hear that aswell if you listen hard. And for the injector the diesel spray should spray like a nice mist and sounds like it needs a good cleaning . Try taking the noozle of and cleaning it and maybe a quick fix. And you should be carfull when turning the flywheel because there is a lot of pressure on the noozle and could hurt your skin , wouldn,t want to do that.There are alot of good knowledgeable guys on here that could help you out better than i can but just a few things to try. Lester Rob.

[Coldstart]

OK

Thank you for your fast answer.

I have checked everything you have suggested, but the piston rings, for leaks.
I have to take the cylinder of and check the piston and he rings.
I will report when I know more.

I can easily turn the engine over just by pushing the flywheel. I can feel the compression but it is very easy to push the wheel.


Is it possible to clean the injector yourself?
I have off course cleaned if on the outside, but is it OK to open it and clean the inside?
I have heard it is difficult to make correct adjustment yourself.
Can you put it in some liquid who loosing up the dirt?

Torbjorn

[oliver90owner]

Torbjorn,

Is it possible to clean the injector yourself?

Yes, if you feel competent enough.  you have to be aware that any scratching, scuffing or inclusion of foreign material will render the unit useless.  If you are not confident, then put it out to a specialist. 

Basically the fit is metal to metal and no lapping is allowed if you make a mistake.  Cleaning must be scrupulous and orifices must not be marked or scratched in any way.  Rebuild under clean fuel is the order of the day.  Apart from that, no problem.

They also need setting to pressure which is done using a 'pop' tester.  If you don't have one send it to the specialist.  Got the idea?  Put the job out rather than risk messing it up.  Cheaper.  Especially if you don't have a working spare.

You could rig up a compressed air supply to the injector hole.  That way you will know where the gas is leaking.  Done all the time on old iron.  Good in cojunction with, or as an alternative to, a compression test.

You may even have a valve which is not quite closing properly, or the engine may have been left with one valve open and that may be giving trouble, due to corrosion.

Regards, RAB

[lendusaquid]

You should be able to take the injector apart with out losing the pressure setting.Under the top cover there is a locknut and adjusting screw.Leave them alone and you can take everthing else apart for a clean without loosing the setting.
Getting some oil on top of the piston and on the valves should give some temporary compression for a start up.Some hot air down the air intake while turning it over will help as well.After you have had the pleasure of watching it run i should strip it down to find out what you have got.

[Coldstart]

Hello

Now I have controlled the piston rings.
They where 100% stucked.

I tried to loosen them up with oil ands so.
After a while, I could move both ends oft the ring but the middle part was still stucked.
I also tried to push a steel wire under the ring and pushed it longer and longer with tiny movements.

After two ours of very careful and hard work, I broke the first piston ring.

I have bought new piston rings and assemble the engine.
Now there is good compression.

Now the engine starts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I was waiting on the new piston rings, I cleaned the injector with rust oil.
I put the whole injector in a bath with rust oil.
I let the rust oil sucked in for two days.
I also opened the lowest part of the injector (as lendusaquid explained) and cleaned with 100% clean rust oil.

Now there is a “mist” and not a “jet” from the injector, but it is not 100% perfect.
Now the engine at least starts.

I still have problems with white smoke.

I will continue to search the problem with the injector.

Thank you all for all your ideas and tip-offs!

Regards

Torbjorn

[contaucreek]

Have a look at your compression change over valve.