Author Topic: 6/1 Powerline starting??????????????????  (Read 4931 times)

halfcrazy

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6/1 Powerline starting??????????????????
« on: December 21, 2008, 01:31:46 AM »
ok i have a brand new 6/1 powerline with the electric start and this thing is driving me nuts it just doesnt want to start. if it is say 50 degrees F it will start but it will blow white smoke threw maybe 5-6 compression strokes first. but if it is down to say 20 degrees F no joy the only way i can get it to start is by holding a lit torch over the intake and letting it suck in the flame then she will fire right up. and run great
The engine has at least 15 gallons of fuel thru it now it is our generator to charge the batteries in our off grid home. it seems to run great once started it will do 3kw easy and maybe a little more i have seen 34oo watts and no smoke at all? i am at a loss here i havent done anything i guess i will adjust the valves and try to check the timing and see?
Any ideas where to start? this engine does have the compression change over valve on it and i have it all the way in clock wise when trying to start and from reading here a lot of people say to remove them and plug the hole? any thoughts there?

Stan

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Re: 6/1 Powerline starting??????????????????
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 01:50:00 AM »
Don't know much about the listeroids, but dursley lister CS engines were designed to have the COV valve for a reason that makes good physics sense.

Quote from 1949 manual;

Compression Ratio change-Over Valve (3 1/2 1, 6/1, 12/2 only)

This is a device to give a high compression for starting, and a lower compression for normal running.
The valve screwed "IN" give high compression and "OUT" gives low compression.
Do NOT run under heavy load with high compression.
For long runs at 1/3 load or less, use high compression.
Always see that Valve is either Fully in or Fully out.
Keep the screw thread clean and bright

3400 watts seems like a pretty heavy load, and should be used with low compression to keep from hammering the guts out of it.  If you ditch the COV you will end up with low compression all the time and make starting harder, at least on a dursley lister.  YMMV

Stan

oliver90owner

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Re: 6/1 Powerline starting??????????????????
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 09:16:23 AM »
Engine needs compression to heat the air charge.  It needs suitable fuel injected at the right time and correct spray pattern to distribute it in the combustion chamber.  If that happens it will fire.

Repeating some of yours and Jens' thoughts plus a bit more.

Compression - may be too low.  Could be caused by a number of things.  Rings, valves (including COV) not properly seated.  Compression ratio incorrect due to improper milling of head, wrong piston/head clearance, COV problem.

Fuel - this should be a gravity feed so there should be no leaks into the system unless the filter is blocked.  Unlikely as you are getting full power (maximum requiredl fuel flow) and it would probably start OK anyway. 

Timing - this will make a difference to starting and to running.  Easy to check.

Spray pattern - Injector may be fitted wrong (extra seals fitted), pop pressure may be wrong, nozzle may be dirty or faulty.  May even be the wrong nozzle.

Correct grade of fuel is required.

All that said, your problem is likely to be Indian innattention to squish  (piston/head clearance).  Easily checked by feeding soft solder wire through injector hole and gently turnig piston thru TDC, followed by measurement of flattened wire.

Questions like 'did you dismantle and check for casting sand in the engine before running it?' or 'did you just run it as it arrived?' come to mind.

The answer to either could get your name changed to 'completely crazy' or 'damned lucky' from quite a few on the forum if your answers were 'no' and 'yes'! :)

Your supplier should be attending to problems like this.  This is obviuosly not advertised as a 'CS'?.  If it is, it is patently not, and you have been scammed, fiddled or just cheated if they give no warranty as to goods being fit for purpose.  If the after-sales service is not forthcoming, let everybody know so they can avoid this make when making future purchases.

You wuld not accept that sort of thing if you bought a new car, so why should you accept it with a new engine?

Regards, RAB

oliver90owner

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Re: 6/1 Powerline starting??????????????????
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 09:41:01 AM »
After-thought.  Is the starter turning the engine fast enough?  That might be the difference between starting and not.  Battery cables should be of adequate cross section, tight and good metal to metal contact.  Battery should be of sufficient capacity for the duty.  Starter should be in spec. Have you tried starting manually or might it be turned faster manually?

Regards, RAB

halfcrazy

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Re: 6/1 Powerline starting??????????????????
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2008, 01:10:31 PM »
ok the company i bought it from will indeed come out and lok at it and help me they said they where going to set valves and timing and go from there and they have been very good about giving me parts that wherent right from the factory so a big +1000 to them.

they also said there is no need for a full dissasembly as they have never seen sand in the powerline line of engines. and i did take the starter plate off and poke around and i couldnt find anything even the magnetic drain plug had just a little steel sludge after the first oil change but very little about what i would expect anyway.

the electric starter seems to be rolling her over quite fast i know i couldnt crank start this engine and doubt anyone coul as hard as it starts ???