Author Topic: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...  (Read 23984 times)

GuyFawkes

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2008, 01:17:25 AM »
I wonder how much power it takes to get a 6/1 up to starting speed?

A human being makes a sixth of a horsepower, or 125 watts.

Sure, top athletes can hammer that for a while, but we're talking one arm and back here.

Cold starting performance is by far the simplest indication of overall engine condition.

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Geno

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2008, 01:24:22 AM »
I don't need my glow plug above freezing but I've used it down to 0°f or lower and it fires up every time. Take your time cranking it up to speed and engage compression. Throttle the rack and let it get up to speed slowly. My glow plug sticks out too far into the pre comp chamber so after a few minutes I swap it for one thats cut off flush with the plug. Works every time on my engine.

Thanks, Geno
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 01:28:38 AM by Geno »

MacGyver

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2008, 01:49:13 AM »

A human being makes a sixth of a horsepower, or 125 watts.

Sure, top athletes can hammer that for a while, but we're talking one arm and back here.

Cold starting performance is by far the simplest indication of overall engine condition.



Yes, I can't imagine that I'm putting much more than 1/3HP into that crank handle. I can wing it over just fine for a few revolutions, but I have an endurance problem (and fear of a back blow-out) that an electric motor doesn't have.

I don't mind having to use the decompression lever along with the starter if necessary. I'm not after "auto start". I still need to go out there and check oil, turn on the fuel, flip the appropriate breakers and switches to direct the power to the house, and all that. I just need to take the "grunt work" out of starting it so that either the wife or I can get it going under "adverse conditions", which may include sub-freezing temperatures.
I had NO problem getting it started several times at temps in the 35-40F range, but at 25F it ain't gonna happen without help. (although the propane torch down the intake sure helped this morning!)

FWIW, here's a snippet from wikipedia about human HP:

"Put into perspective, a healthy human can produce about 1.2 hp briefly and sustain about 0.1 hp indefinitely, and trained athletes can manage up to about 0.3 horsepower for a period of several hours."
Steve

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SteveU.

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2008, 01:50:30 AM »
Hello Steve

No need to lay in the mud. Auto starter companys on EBay are showing new stock of the 50's to early 60's Ford "long shaft" starters both xzyer and Sid refered to. Also used on ford 8&9N tractors.
They are bullit proof and have a nice 6"x 5/8"? soft steel shaft you can fab anything to.

Really one of the best ways to go.

SteveU.
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MacGyver

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2008, 03:52:43 AM »
Thanks SteveU,

I'll keep the Ford starters on Ebay in mind.
I think I'll try the little 250W motor I've got first. It's The MacGyver Way to use what you've got readily available whenever possible...  ;D
If that doesn't work, then the Ford starter is probably plan B.

Will keep everyone posted on how it goes...
Steve

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Stan

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2008, 04:09:28 AM »
You've got to have an ice rink or arena near you with at least a couple of minor hockey teams practicing and maybe an old timers league going even in CA  ???  It's got soccer beat by a mile, can't stand sitting around watching a bunch of guys on a field jogging along trying to decide who to kick the ball to.  I'd far rather watch players on ice skates going 60mph back and forth so fast you can't turn your head fast enough if you are sitting close to the ice.  If you can't find one there, let me know and I'll see if I can get hold of a dozen or so and send them to you.
stan

MacGyver

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2008, 04:40:50 AM »
You've got to have an ice rink or arena near you with at least a couple of minor hockey teams practicing and maybe an old timers league going even in CA  ??? 

Hmmm. Welll, I guess there's the Redwood Empire Ice Arena (Charles Schulz's place). It's only about 45 minute drive from here and maybe I could go buy a puck from Snoopy.  :)
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

Stan

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2008, 05:18:26 AM »
It would probably cost less to do that than send one down there using Canada Postal Robbers.  It just cost me $30 to send a small light parcel back to my daughter in Ottawa Ontario.  ???  If you've got an ice area that close to you , the sports shops right near you will have to have pucks on hand.  Just remember to put it outside at night to freeze solid before you try to drill a hole(s) in it.
Stan
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 05:20:34 AM by Stan »

NoSpark

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2008, 06:48:24 AM »
MacGyver, Since I first tried to start mine at 20F, I've thought about using my 10hp chipper engine as a pony motor, just make a pin and bushing setup(like a hinge) with a long handle so the pony motor could tension the belt and then slid off after start up. Hell, if the small engine has an electric starter on it you might not have to do any cranking at all. I changed my oil to 10w30 Rotella this weekend and what a difference in starting. Started up tonight with 22F on the engine temp gauge without a problem. That's with WMO blend too. Forget cold starting how about those air bleeding sessions  :P.

Years ago I saw a couple of long hoses with quick connects coiled up under a woodsman's pickup truck hood tied into his heater hoses and asked what they were for. He said he would drive up to his cold skidder and hook the hoses from his pickup up to the skidder and preheat the engine before trying to start it. Without getting into the obvious potential problems with this, it seemed like a clever idea.
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

t19

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2008, 11:54:39 AM »
I have started mine by hand at -30C

I engage the decompression, turn on the fuel, and gentley start spinning the wheel up to speed.  nothing hard core, all nice and gentile

When ready to start I spin it a little harder and release the decompression... I normally get a bit of fuel smoke, then she starts up... or I repeat and she starts on the second attempt

I have found that if I listen to the weather, and I think we are in for a bad time I plug in the Magnetic Block heater the night before and the block is nice and warm ready to start
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carlb23

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2008, 01:16:50 PM »
If you find that the small electric motor is not enough to start the engine maybe you engage the electric motor and use it to assist you in hand cranking. let it do most of the work and you can pull it through compression. 

I have found on one or two occasions when it was very cold they my air starter had a little trouble starting the engine on the first try.  It does not have enough power ( air tank reserve ) to get it over compression more than two or three times.  Now what I do is start slowly hand cranking the engine then engage the air starter while still cranking gently just helping out a bit.  Now if it doesn't fire on the first few compression strokes I have plenty of air and arm power to get it through compression several more times with ease.  Using this method when very cold is simple and easy.


Carl.

Stan

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2008, 04:02:57 PM »
Nospark....That concept of using a hot pickup engine to warm up a heavier piece of equipment using the coolent flow pumped through both engines is very common in the north.  Some guys with logging trucks have built a small electric boiler and pump to plug into their cooling system overnight.  Don't forget to keep the oil warm too, a pan heater that sticks to the bottom of the oil pan is crucial for longevity of engines.  I once took a chrysler 440 oil pump out by starting it in -40+ temps for 6 weeks.  It would take a full minute to get any oil pressure at all.  Can't even imagine the damage I did to the bearings.
stan

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2008, 06:05:59 PM »
The lowest I started my direct injected 14/1 was -14 degrees F. It started first compression stroke, it always starts first compression stroke (no matter what temp). The timing is spot on and I keep the engine always fresh.

That is the advantages of the greater heat retention of the direct injected engine design vs. an indirect injected engine design. If you want a full mechanical engine without electrical assistance, you can change to a direct injected head and change the studs.

Diesel Guy

Tom

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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2008, 07:00:46 PM »
I just tried to start mine, it was down to the mid 20's last night and the air temp was 34 when I tried. First try was a no go, I forgot to follow my own advice and make sure the rack was full open. Second try it started on the 3rd compression stroke.

I am wondering if the wide difference in reported results is that in colder areas the diesel is winterized and around here it is probably not.
Tom
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Re: Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2008, 07:57:36 PM »

Tom,

Thant is a great question. I use diesel 911 in my tanks to keep the fuel thin at extreme temps.

About changing an IDI engine into a DI engine, you would also need to change the piston to a direct injected design and maybe re balance the flywheels if the indirect injected piston is cast iron.

Diesel Guy