Rats, I'm to old and cold to get it started...

[MacGyver]

Well, it's been pretty chilly here lately (for this part of California). It got down to 26F (-3C) last night.

The 'roid has been really easy to start in all temperatures I've tried it at so far so I figured I'd step out this morning and see how it goes in sub-freezing temps.

It sucked. 

I got it spun up and dropped the compression release and it never even offered to fire. My back has been kind of dicey lately and I was only able to roll it through 6 full compression strokes before my back felt like it was going to do something "bad" and I gave up. The roid never even pretended it was going to start.

Shit. What good is a generator that I can't start in cold weather?

So about 15 minutes later I went back out with the propane torch. I pulled the air filter off, lit the torch with a fairly small flame and stuck it down the air inlet. I spun it up to speed again and dropped the compression release and it popped and started on the first compression stroke. Yeah!

So I guess I CAN start it when it's cold, but I definitely see a need for an electric or air powered starter in my future to keep my back from blowing out some cold morning. Rats...

[mkdutchman]

MacGuyer,
I can't help with the starter, but I have some COV plugs with glow plugs in them. They work like a charm, fires on the first compression stroke, without fail, ALWAYS

That said, I've only had the chance to use them on about 30 degrees F

[lendusaquid]

Sort of defeats the point of it being called a cold start Lister .Putting some heat down the intake does seem like the best way of starting these things especially after a restoration or rebuild.Recently i bid on a SOM head for the sole purpose of being able to start with the press of a button only to be out bid by Rab .

[xyzer]

If it was easy (I meant cheap) to get a SOM here in the states there would be alot more competition on epay!  Hey MacGyver I want to do starter thing also...I'll probably go 12v. I kicked the dirt awile ago over the subject even talked to a statrer rebuilder about the early ford starters that had a long shaft without the bendix arrangement. I was going to put a wheel on it like the air starter guys...
Dave 

[Tom]

Hey Steve,

Yes it's been cold! I hope the citrus trees are ok! We still have snow on the ground here.

What kind of oil are you using. I was using 30wt and it was real hard to crank at these temps, but on this last oil change I used 10-40wt and it is MUCH easier to crank. I didn't try to start mine this morning, but I needed to run it for some battery charging 2 days ago and it started on the 3rd compression stroke. I would imagine synthetic oil is even better in cold weather.

Another thing to check is the rack. Mine now moves quite freely when room temp, however the other day when I started it, the rack was moving quite stiff due to the cold. It only opened 1/2 way on its own so I manually opened it the rest of the way. You might want to confirm your rack is fully open when cold.

Also I've found the the new higher mounting puts me in a great position for cranking and it is much easier on the back. My crank is now 27" above the floor. I am not running any anti-freeze in the cooling system and I'm wondering at what temp people have experienced "frost" damage? The puddles in the shade are all frozen, but I found no ice in the cooling tank this morning.

I've been keeping an hour log just to track how much I need to run for battery charging and so far the engine is up to 630 hours. I added a super trap to the end of the 2" galvanized pipe I buried for the exhaust. It quiets the "pung" noise of the exhaust    

I've used the torch/500,000 btu weed burner on the case backhoe and it has worked well for starting that diesel too. No glow plugs on that engine either.

[compig]

If it was easy (I meant cheap) to get a SOM here in the states there would be alot more competition on epay!  Hey MacGyver I want to do starter thing also...I'll probably go 12v. I kicked the dirt awile ago over the subject even talked to a statrer rebuilder about the early ford starters that had a long shaft without the bendix arrangement. I was going to put a wheel on it like the air starter guys...
Dave 

Exchange rate is in you guy's favour at the moment , so now might be the time !!

[Stan]

See my new post in "Members Only" on shipping from the UK
Stan

[MacGyver]

Hi Tom,
I wondered if you got snow. We didn't. in fact we didn't get hardly any moisture with that last system. Just cold...

I think the orange trees will be fine. Those trees are at least 70-80 years old, and they've seen it all by now.
I was worried about my small meyers lemon and the new lime tree I put in this year, so I covered them with plastic sheet and put a drop light with a 25 watt bulb under each one.

The roid has Delo 15-40 in the crankcase, so it's probably not as bad as yours was with 30 weight. A few years ago I'm sure it wouldn't have been a problem for me to start it, but my back isn't so good anymore and it keeps me from putting as much "grunt" into it as I'd like.

I suppose some form of electric or air start is a good idea anyway in case something "bad" happens to me and the wife needs to start it...

I'll bet the supertrap looks pretty cute on your exhaust.
I've got the 5 gallon expansion chamber, followed by 10' of 2" pipe to get it under the corner of the shop and out the other side, then a regular car muffler on the end. It's very quiet with just a little "huff". The mechanical clatter totally overwhelms the exhaust sound.

630 hours? Wow, you're getting up there pretty good already!
I finally installed an hour meter on mine that powers up whenever the generator is making power. Less than $22 from Digikey
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CRA219-ND

[MacGyver]

Exchange rate is in you guy's favour at the moment , so now might be the time !!

The exchange rate isn't the only problem for me. There's also the expensive and messy divorce I'd get if I bought *another* expensive generator...

[MacGyver]

I wonder how much power it takes to get a 6/1 up to starting speed?

I've got a 24 volt motor out of a small electric scooter. It claims to be 24VDC @ 14A input and 250W output which is about 1/3 HP...
It looks easy to mount and I'd probably use the rubber wheel method to drive the roid flywheel.

Any opinions on whether this little guy would be adequate to the task of getting a 6/1 started?

[Tom]

You know, if you put electric start on it, the next thing to happen will be remote start and then she'll be neglected out in the shop. Sounds like a descent into decadence to me.   Once you get something good worked make you share what you did so we can copy it.  

[compig]

I wonder how much power it takes to get a 6/1 up to starting speed?

I've got a 24 volt motor out of a small electric scooter. It claims to be 24VDC @ 14A input and 250W output which is about 1/3 HP...
It looks easy to mount and I'd probably use the rubber wheel method to drive the roid flywheel.

Any opinions on whether this little guy would be adequate to the task of getting a 6/1 started?

It would turn it over , but would turn it over fast enough ?  Just get a surplus car starter motor.

[sid]

use a starter out of an old ford car/ it has a long shaft and a rubber wheel can be mounted on it.,a relay,battery a push start switch and some heavy wire mounted on a simple tilt frame works wonders. I have seen several made that way and all turn over a lister with out any problem. the battery only has to be charged after a lot of useage/sid

[Stan]

Arrow engine used to make a perfect one called the 990 which was installed on their engines.  Their website is now kaput (technical term  ) and I don't even know if they are in business any more.  It had a long handle used to tilt the electric motor with the rubber wheel (hockey puck?, freeze it and then drill it, works better) bolted on to it.
Stan

[MacGyver]

Arrow engine used to make a perfect one called the 990 which was installed on their engines.  Their website is now kaput (technical term  ) and I don't even know if they are in business any more.  It had a long handle used to tilt the electric motor with the rubber wheel (hockey puck?, freeze it and then drill it, works better) bolted on to it.
Stan

Yeah, that's what I was thinking... pivot at the bottom and a long handle to press the drive wheel against the flywheel. Put a pushbutton switch on top of the handle for a "thumb trigger" and wire it to a relay.

Instead of a hockey puck (hockey puck? I don't even know where to get one around here?) I was going to use a piece of hydraulic hose or radiator hose that has the right outside diameter, and slice a section of it to slip over a turned aluminum or steel "wheel" that has a hole in it for the motor shaft.

I think I'll try that 250W scooter motor and see how it goes. It looks *easy* to mount and it's already here. If it doesn't work then I'll have to goto Pick'n'Pull and lay in the mud and pull a suitable starter from a car...