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Author Topic: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........  (Read 5262 times)

compig

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Quinnf

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Re: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 10:44:28 PM »
Isn't that just a standard 8/1 with the trapezoidal holes in the flywheels, aluminum piston, chrome top ring, etc?   Nice pics.

Quinn
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

matt

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Re: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 10:44:50 PM »
Hi Compig,

Those flywheels are the original standard 8/1 type units used on original Lister standard (non SOM) 8hp CS engine.

They seem to be stronger than the spoked type, presumably for safety at the higher speed of 850rpm.  There is extra cast metal between every second pair of spokes which gives the triangle look.

The 8hp Listeroids also seem to have kept the same type of flywheel.

The question then is...why does everybody seem to buy the Stadard 6/1 listeroid? The price is nearly the same between the 6/1 and the 8/1 'roids.
The 8/1 and the 10/1 appear to have much more sturdier flywheels - not to mention the extra hp available if needed.
Yet despite the others having many advantages, the 6/1 seems to be the most popular.

This I cannot understand.

Can anyone fill me in on what I am missing here?

regards,
Matt

PS Quinn I think the 8/1 had the CI piston like the 6/1. In fact they were nearly identical in every way except the Flywheels and lack of Compression change over plug in the 8/1.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 10:59:07 PM by matt »

Quinnf

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Re: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2008, 04:34:12 AM »
According to David Edgington's very much worth having book, The Lister CS Story http://www.stationaryenginebooks.co.uk/listercs.htm, (pages 35 - 36) the 8/1 first appeared in 1958 as the CS 6/1 was showing its age: too heavy, too expensive, old technology.  According to Edgington's book, Lister was scrambling to compete with more modern engines in a post-war economy where construction was booming.  Lister's management decided they had to both increase power and reduce manufacturing costs in order to remain competitive.  The 8/1 had an aluminum piston to lower reciprocating weight, and as a cost cutting measure, did away with the "Listard" chrome plated cylinder bore in favor of cast iron, with a chrome plated top compression ring.  The dual chamber head was modified to include the now ubiquitous plug,which reduced the compression ratio from 19:1 to 17.5:1 for both start and run conditions.  And though there appears to be more metal in the 8/1 flywheel disk, Edgington says the flywheels were lighter than those of the 6/1s, although the air cooled VA variant that was manufactured mainly for export had flywheels that in some cases were heavier than those of the standard 8/1 for generator service. 

The Indian variants seem to simply use a 6/1 piston (cast iron) and flywheels.  I've only seen one or two examples of Indian 'roids with the "proper" 8/1 flywheels.

As to what the draw of the 6/1 is over the 8/1 or 10/1, I think it varies.  Seems the 6/1 and 10/1 are popular, but not the 8/1 so much.  Edgington's book says the 8/1 was capable of running at both 650 rpm (6 hp) and 850 rpm (8 hp).  For my part, I wanted low fuel consumption.  I didn't foresee any need for more power.

Quinn
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 04:46:56 AM by Quinnf »
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

compig

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Re: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 10:10:38 AM »
I have the Lister CS Story and just completely forgot that I had seen this style of flywheel !! LOL !! Another noticable difference on the 8/1 is the exposed cylinder bolts.
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
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Quinnf

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Re: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 06:14:20 PM »
You kind of have to look for it in the book, but it's there.  I've read it cover to cover probably four or five times and every time I find something that I missed earlier.  Edgington mentioned somewhere about the cylinder with the exposed studs.  Again, a weight and cost cutting measure.  It's funny how much the world changed from 1941 to 1946 so far as technology goes.  At war's end, designers were designing lighter, more streamlined airplanes, cars, and even electric toasters.  Lister must have had a hard time reconciling their excellent but heavy old line of engines with the newer design paradigm.

Cost-cutting measures aside, an 8/1 is a great engine, and a piece of history.  Enjoy it.

Quinn
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

matt

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Re: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2008, 09:29:01 PM »
Quote
According to David Edgington's very much worth having book, The Lister CS Story http://www.stationaryenginebooks.co.uk/listercs.htm, (pages 35 - 36) the 8/1 first appeared in 1958 as the CS 6/1 was showing its age: too heavy, too expensive, old technology.  According to Edgington's book, Lister was scrambling to compete with more modern engines in a post-war economy where construction was booming.  Lister's management decided they had to both increase power and reduce manufacturing costs in order to remain competitive.  The 8/1 had an aluminum piston to lower reciprocating weight, and as a cost cutting measure, did away with the "Listard" chrome plated cylinder bore in favor of cast iron, with a chrome plated top compression ring.  The dual chamber head was modified to include the now ubiquitous plug,which reduced the compression ratio from 19:1 to 17.5:1 for both start and run conditions.  And though there appears to be more metal in the 8/1 flywheel disk, Edgington says the flywheels were lighter than those of the 6/1s, although the air cooled VA variant that was manufactured mainly for export had flywheels that in some cases were heavier than those of the standard 8/1 for generator service. 

The Indian variants seem to simply use a 6/1 piston (cast iron) and flywheels.  I've only seen one or two examples of Indian 'roids with the "proper" 8/1 flywheels.

As to what the draw of the 6/1 is over the 8/1 or 10/1, I think it varies.  Seems the 6/1 and 10/1 are popular, but not the 8/1 so much.  Edgington's book says the 8/1 was capable of running at both 650 rpm (6 hp) and 850 rpm (8 hp).  For my part, I wanted low fuel consumption.  I didn't foresee any need for more power.

Quinn


Hi Quinn,

My apologies. I stand corrected. (I should have known better than to question you ;))

I too have Mr Edington's excellent book, but I my recollection of the detail written therein was substantially lacking.

Now having found out that the aluminium pistin was originally supplied, I am now curious to try one.
Was it a flat top piston?

regards,
Matt

Quinnf

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Re: An 8/1 with interesting flywheels.........
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 10:17:07 PM »
Matt,

Don't apologize.  We're all learning.   :)  I just picked up that info-bit from the book and it stuck for some reason.
Re: the piston, yes I'm sure it's flat, just like that of the 6/1.  I haven't heard or read otherwise.  Sounds like at the time the 8/1 came to be they were trying to update the engine as cheaply as possible.  But with the advent of inexpensive throw-away high speed engines that were substantially lighter than the 8/1, the customer base must have been dwindling.  Reminds me of VW's various attempts to keep its air-cooled engine line going while the world was being swamped with cheap cars from Japan with water cooled engines that were more durable, more economical and lesser polluting than the air-cooled engines.

Quinn
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew