Puppeteer

Author Topic: white metal or roller bearing  (Read 12459 times)

tigger

  • Guest
white metal or roller bearing
« on: December 09, 2008, 11:46:44 PM »
is it possible to convert the main bearings on a cs 5-1 from white metal to roller bearings?
Ralph

compig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1264
  • 1953 Lister CS 6/1 SOM owner
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 11:51:58 PM »
Anythings possible , but that would be alot of work !!  Why would you want to though ?
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

tigger

  • Guest
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 12:01:35 AM »
the engine I bought was totally shot. I have to buy nearly every mooving part new and I thought it would be better on rollers

compig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1264
  • 1953 Lister CS 6/1 SOM owner
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 12:08:35 AM »
Would still be easier to retain the original type of bearing as converting to roller would require machining etc. With correct maintenance these will last thousands of hours.
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

Wizard

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 12:39:25 AM »
While on this bearing subject,

I have couple question:

What the reason was converted from sleeve bearings to roller/ball bearings at one point even these days can buy prepared sleeve shells?

Second on 2 cylinder listeroids didn't these use all sleeve or the number 1 and 3 is roller while number 2 is plain bearing shells if correct, how one maintain the bore-line alignment as not to stress the crank and wear out the bearings?

Cheers, Wizard

oliver90owner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 12:44:03 AM »
A taper roller bearing crank would possibly fit.  Ask a supplier for a definitive answer.  The main bearing housings may have a different bolt pattern.  Personally I would say the same as the rest.  Rebuild what you have.  Done properly, it will likely outlast you.

Regards, RAB

tigger

  • Guest
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 08:15:50 PM »
I have no doubt that it will outlast me but I needed a crank, bearings and housings, so I was wondering if rollers are not better.

Tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Green power is good.
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 08:28:01 PM »
Going the roller route, since you need all the parts anyway, will probably cost less $. It also won't turn to scrap if the oil pump fails.

Since the Indians offer the riods in both configurations, I'd be surprised if the roller and sleeve cranks were not the same. I've never seen a different part number for them.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

nobby

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 08:53:46 PM »
Better well that's a hugely debateable point.
I am not so sure that the Indians are necessarily using roller bearings from a primary goal of longevity/better/engineering design standpoint.  Merely a manufacturing decision, with a single cylinder engine in mass production it is fairly easy to install rollers on the end mains all it requires at the most is a casting/machining change for the mounts and the bearings themselves are no doubt for them cheaper to source.  Now correct me if I am wrong but in the case of the 2 cylinder units they are only using rollers on the outside mains only and the center main is stilll split shell?  This query brings me to the issue that once you get into multi-cylinder units you cannot effectively install roller bearings for the mains and hence split shell bearings and bushings are the order of the day.  Note that the big end is still split shell, now there are single cylinders with roller big ends but this involves a 2 piece press fit crank which gets very expensive.
I have rebuilt and run roller bearing engines and have admired the design and its potential for greater wear characteristics in essence saving the crank from wear.  Have I run one long enough to establish just how good not really no.

IMHO as already posted by others your decision should really be based on how easily to get the repair done.  Not which is better from an engineering standpoint?  I say this because in all reality bushings will be just fine moreover you will more than likely find it easier sticking with the existing style even if you have to have bushings machined and debating this is somewhat splitting hairs.

cheers
Nobby

2 x Lister CE's
Looking for a CD

1958steveflying

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 09:41:23 PM »
FWIW when i was faced with this same decision a few months ago, i was led to believe by the supplier the Indian standard bearing and Trb cranks are different. So probably best to make a permanent decision now as future change will be basically the same expense again. I went for the standard mains and the only issues so far are the Indian oil throwers are of no use due to them being oversize internally, Luckily my originals are looking usable.

  Steve

tigger

  • Guest
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 10:11:48 PM »
see, I am a motorbike mechanic and I thought that rollers are the way to go.
yes original would be the way to do this, but it'll last as long and the bearings and housings have cost me as much as just new whitemetal ones.

tigger

  • Guest
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 10:14:34 PM »
oh Nobby
yes on multi cylinders I would not have put any rollers in
Ralph

tigger

  • Guest
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 10:18:30 PM »
hi 1958steveflying
the indian crank IS differant to the english one. it is a little softer if i'm not mistaken that's why the rollers (EN16-EN09)
i stand corrected
Ralph

1958steveflying

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 10:41:19 PM »
Hi Ralph.
   SEP ltd have Indian bush bearing EN9 cranks and Trb EN16 cranks. Opinion is that whilst EN16 would be best as original bush bearing cranks by Lister were, an EN9 crank should well outlast my lifetime if properly maintained so thats what i went for. Fingers crossed and all that. However i would have preferred an original Lister crank but this rebuild has a budget i cant afford to break.

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/crankshaft-bearings-1555-0.html

  Steve

tigger

  • Guest
Re: white metal or roller bearing
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 10:48:15 PM »
that's the people i'm dealing with