Author Topic: OIL SEED PRESS  (Read 35222 times)

rgroves

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2006, 02:43:51 PM »
Bob, this is exactly why this forum is valuable, because it brings together people who aren't waiting to let somebody take care of them.  So please let me drop one other variable in here.  Once you've pressed the oil, fermented the mash and  fed the hog, any ideas what you can do with the poop that comes out of the hog?  Or out of you, when you've et the hog? 

Yeah, it's biogas.  Methane. Natural gas.  And you can make that yourself too (no, not that way)

Watch this space or drop me a note. That's where I'l stop for now.

Russell

i bought a 4 ton press from joel, for the following reason

i wanted another source of energy that doesnt come from a pump.

another thing i have done some research on is the fact that these engines can be set up in dual fuel mode, consider the following.

press the oil seed for vegie oil, can use as is

take the byproduct, and ferment it and produce alcohol which can be used in an dual fuel diesel, take the left over mash

and feed it to the hog.
 
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

mobile_bob

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2006, 05:01:27 PM »
yup convert it to biogas, methane, then what to do with the byproduct? hmmmm?

fertilizer for the oild grain crop!

i think that about completes the circle, wouldn't you say?

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
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solarguy

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2006, 06:51:33 PM »
Dear Fuddyduddy,

Living in Indiana, I'd be very interested in meeting this Michigan farmer with more sense that any 4 politicians put together on a good day.  Assuming he is ammenable and the meeting is arranged at his convenience, etc etc etc.

Finest regards,

troy

Tom

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2006, 11:17:45 PM »
Hey SG watch it. I'm a politician (Libertarian candidate for California State Assembly) who is also thinking of buying a seed press and growing some rape seed on the ranch. Of course I have not won anything yet so I'm not much of a politician yet.  :P
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

solarguy

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2006, 11:31:05 PM »
Dear Tom,

Perhaps you are one of the new breed of super intelligent politicians that have evolved lately.  I have heard vague reports of this possibility, but I thought it was all an urban myth.

I can't tell you how happy I am that you really do exist.  If you were in my district, I'd vote for you in a heartbeat.

As you can tell, no offense intended and hopefully none taken. 

In fact, I'll bet the reason your are a "politician" is that you held the same opinion or worse and decided you had to do something about it, and shooting the present crop is not a viable solution.

Finest finest regards,

troy

Tom

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2006, 05:26:54 AM »
Troy,

Thanks for the kind words and no offense taken. However in entering the field of politics I know I've entered into league with some of the slimy weasels on the face of the earth. Hopefully I may be able to raise a few peoples opinions along the way.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Doug

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2006, 06:14:52 PM »
MMM....
Free Pork.....

No just kidding, noble intentions. If I was a yank I'd vote for you.

Personaly I want to become a Latin American dictator....

Doug

GuyFawkes

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2006, 06:25:03 PM »
MMM....
Free Pork.....

No just kidding, noble intentions. If I was a yank I'd vote for you.

Personaly I want to become a Latin American dictator....

Doug

I'll be your evil sidekick
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2006, 12:38:35 AM »
That's good work....if you can get it  ;D
I'm always telling people that they need to consider the long term implications of thier plans..ratio of scale and effect, unintended consequences, bottom line, cost to benefit ratio, waste disposal, holding tanks, consumables etc.
RGroves, you are to be commended for checking these aspects of a buyer before you sell him a press etc.
When I read of California's Hydrogen Highway and other pie in the sky energy schemes I just cringe. Stupidity should hurt up front to save all the pain that comes later.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is that You Guys really are willing to consider the actual high cost of what you plan. You realize the start up price, and the learning curve. The final price of the product and the effect on engine life are considered. Yet you proceed for your own reasons. Eyes wide open. I sure enjoy this better than listening to politicians leading from behind.
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

Andre Blanchard

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2006, 12:59:47 PM »
That's good work....if you can get it  ;D

I understand the retirement plan has a few downsides.
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Andre' B.
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Andre' B

Doug

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2006, 07:07:20 PM »
Lets get one thing straight right off the bat Guy....

I'll do the 12 hour speaches and pound my shoe on the podium, that my job!
You fill the airplane with bags of cash an dkeep the engines running thats your job!!

Doug

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2006, 07:40:01 PM »
Ya know;
Hitler kept those Blom&Voss Wilking Flying Boats fueled and ready for years, but just couldn't make up his mind to leave the bunker in time. He sure could pound the podium and speachify tho'
I think the job at the airplane is the better.
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

Doug

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2006, 10:51:45 PM »
You haven't seen me in my army man outfit with my beard combed nice and shouting "I'll bury you" whilst I pound my shoe on a desk. .....

The only picture I could find......

The one in red is "Gimpy", she was hit by a car but we fed her and her pumps the summer of 03.
The one in green is me, the yellow thing on my belt is my "Johny light" and radio.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13017413745.jpg&s=f5

They actualy let me dress like this, let me yell at people and repair million dollar machines.
Oh ya and they pay me and say thanks lol!!!!!!

Doug

biobill

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2006, 04:39:34 AM »
[quote author = mobile bob]
another thing i have done some research on is the fact that these engines can be set up in the dual fuel mode
Quote

Care to expand on that Bob?  I read about a fella running a diesel genset on methane but have no idea how it works. The methane would have to be introduced via the intake port, no? How's it metered, like a propane fueled engine? and how would you get the timing right?

Eagerly awaiting enlightenment        Bill
Off grid since 1990
6/1 Metro DI living in basement, cogen
6/1 Metro IDI running barn & biodiesel processer
VW 1.6 diesels all over the place
Isuzu Boxtruck, Ford Backhoe, all running on biodiesel
Needs diesel lawnmower & chainsaw

mobile_bob

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Re: OIL SEED PRESS
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2006, 05:46:43 AM »
when i stated that these engines can be run in dual fuel mode, my intension or reasoning is as follows

1. they can be run in dual fuel mode, but not optimally

2. some provision will have to be made to admit the alternate fuel, such as carburation for alcohol, vaporizor for propane, etc

3. some form of overspeed control would be prudent

4. timing alteration should be used

for these engine's most forms of alternate fuels have sufficiently high octane ratings so as to not autoignite in the compression cycle, propane, alcohol, methane fit this group. all of these fuels have a lower btu rating and some have a marked difference in flame propagation over diesel fuel. So optimally timing would have to be altered.

in a basic sense, admitting the alternate fuel into the intake stream the fuel will not ignite until the diesel fuel is injected, having the extra alternate fuel allows the engine to speed up and in doing so the govenor tailors back the diesel that is injected and therefore control engine speed. Some engines can run upwards of 95% alternate fuel and 5% diesel pilot fuel.

it is unlikely in my opinion that the listeroid, petteroids and changfa's will tolerate much more than 80% alternate fuel, likely less than 75%, by tolerate i mean run reliably.

so basically in dual fuel mode it is my contention that running at a 50/50 mix would allow for good govenor control, stable engine operation and negate most of the need to alter the engine timeing.  This is running in dual fuel mode but not optimally.

it comes down to how close you wanna slice the thing, how efficient you want or need to be.

to me having the option of dual fuel allows the use of other fuels as extenders to the pilot fuel, and therefore to me some sacrifice in efficiency is tolerable.

for instance

rape seed press it into oil, and use as a fuel straight up or as biodiesel
take the cake and ferment it to alcohol and carburate it as an alternative fuel in dual fuel mode
feed the mash to the pig, and then take the pigcrap to the methane generator, methane to the engine in dual fuel mode
the end slurry goes back to the field as fertilzer and the cycle is complete

is each point in the cycle maximized in efficiency? decidedly no
is the overall system efficiency acceptable? probably yes


if i were to set up a listeroid for a definite purpose dual fuel engine, such as with alcohol, then i would jet a carb and mount it, and also incorporate a hoof govenor to aid in control of the carburator, i would then alter the timeing to optimize power at the max ratio that the engine would tolerate and still operate reliably (run without miss)
even after all the work i am not sure the gains efficiency would offset the expense and complexity, and i would have an engine locked into one alternate fuel which might be fine if i had a large and steady source of the alternate fuel (in this case alcohol)

personally i believe this is the overriding beauty of the listeroid etc, because they can be made to produce useful power using a variety of fuels
giving me many options, which lessons my dependence on diesel fuel.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info