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Author Topic: India is listening  (Read 5601 times)

Doug

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India is listening
« on: March 28, 2006, 04:36:43 AM »
Its a start I wasn't aware of. Kirloskar is an Indian heavy weight that doesn't get much attention here at the forum but I read a lot and foundsome intersting facts. They built the First Listeroid in 1946 the fist Petter AV1 in 1949. They've been in bed with Cummings, Briggs & Stratton and now Toyota. And now it would apear they are prepring to enter the US market. The question is will the Listeroid get a face lift?

Snip it....

Uprating of existing product (diesel engines) to meet Stringent exhaust emission norms,
stipulated by Govt., for diesel engines used for Genset
Brief Information :
There was a need to introduce Norms for exhaust emissions - for Diesel Genset, in view of increasing use of Gensets, and in keeping with the Govt. policy to ensure effective controls on Emissions.
IDEMA (Indian Diesel Engines Manufacturer Association) had series of meetings with Central Pollution Control Board (CPCB) to formulate the Norms. KOEL R&Engg played an active role in these interactions. The Norms were formally notified by Govt. in May 2002, to be implemented from July 2003. The Norms were quite stringent, in keeping with the Govt resolve to control the Emissions.

Country : India

Location :
All over India.

Duration :
1 Year.

The Challenge :
KOEL manufactures about 28 models of diesel engines, to suit Genset output from 5 KVA to 250 KVA. All these engines needed review of existing design and necessary up gradation, to meet the stipulated Norms. The time available was short, i.e. only 1 year.

The solution :
Typical engine model were first tested to map the existing Emission level so as to decide the parameters to be addressed.Then, the available knowledge base and design capabilities were fully utilized to decide the course of action.Prototype engines were developed and tested at A.R.A.I., to evaluate the effect on the emissions.
Resultant data base was used to firm up the changes required in the critical engine parts/ systems. Detailed interactions were held with MICO - supplier of fuel injection equipment, which is the main contributor in controlling the emissions.
6 of the engine families, covering 14 engine models, were successfully tested at A.R.A.I. & type approval was received, by end March 03.
KOEL was the first manufacturer to get Type approval for the subject Emission Norms.

Project done for :
Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd.

Company Name :
Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd. 


Brief Information :
Agricultural Tractors manufactured in India are mostly in the power range of 20-60 HP, in which 30-40 HP range is the most popular.
Of late, requirement for smaller power range 20-30 HP is increasing.
While most of the engines used for this small power range are of 2 & 3 cylinder configuration, one manufacturer has a single cylinder air-cooled engine, rated at 22 HP. This tractor has its own market, mainly due to low initial cost.

Country : India

Location :
Chennai

Duration :
1 Year.

The Challenge :
A major Tractor manufacturer approached KOEL, with a requirement to develop a single cylinder watercooled engine, rated at 25 HP/2250 PM, to suit a new Tractor model. While the OEM indicated a definite limit on the 'Cost' of the engine and the development time, the technical requirements included compliance to 'US Tier 1' Emission Norms - with provision for upgrading to 'US Tier 2' Norms - to facilitate export of Tractors to U.S.A. & other advanced countries. Considering the power/torque specifications, other technical requirement and the fast that it would be a cost effective' single cylinder engine - this would be a 'unique' design effort.

The solution :
Details of technical specifications were drawn up and mutually agreed upon to decide start the process.
Apart from addressing the basic design objectives of Low cost, high performance, single cylinder engine, many innovative approaches were followed - like extensive use of 3D modeling and 'concurrent engineering' - by involving major suppliers [castings/pressed parts etc] during the design stage itself.
As a result, the prototype engine was developed within a short span of 8 months - which must be a record for this type of activity wherein a new engine is designed and developed from - Scratch.
The prototype met most of the performance objectives at first go. Optimisation/refinement were done, where necessary, and a pilot batch was manufactured for various tests, including endurance tests on dynamometer as well as tests on Tractor. Problems faced during these tests were quickly de-bugged and a pilot batch of tractors is under extensive field tests at present.

Project done for :
TAFE.

Company Name :
Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd. 

Stan

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2006, 11:24:12 PM »
You can bet they will be.  Once China gets wind of a market for Lister style engines they won't have any qualms about ripping off the design and mass producing them.
Stan

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2006, 11:39:16 PM »
The Indian made Royal Efield motorcycle has a redesigned head to meet the emissions requirement. They were imported to the US after, so they must have been compliant?  I don't see why the best selling stationary engines can't be upgraded as well. Maybe the Petteroids will be first, the Listeroids next?  Open combustion chambers, lowsac injectors, rack limiters, positive crankcase ventillation......All still low tech.
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

rgroves

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2006, 11:46:10 PM »
You can bet they will be.  Once China gets wind of a market for Lister style engines they won't have any qualms about ripping off the design and mass producing them.
Stan

If that happens, they'll be made right with good castings, no sand, consistent quality.
And maybe cheaper?

Believe I'll take a container or ten of those.

Russell
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

emerald

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2006, 12:29:56 AM »
I have been in contact with Kirloskar and I have to say of all the Indian manufacturers out there, this company does shine. They have a greater understanding of western markets and mentality. They ACTUALLY do manufacture the parts themselves and dont just buy em in as most other do called manufacturers do. There is no need to educate them about what we expect as they have excellent service and support world wide, yes they are a big company and their products are wide spread....and for a long time.

Altering the Lister clones for US-EU-Japanese emission regulations would mean a new engine. The head will certainly be redesigned and injectors too. The purists wont like it, but thats all part of evolution. A clone of the Lister CD or CE would be nice to see, those were great engines too.

From my conversations with ex Lister engineers, they too knew what was coming with emissions and safety standards and that was another nail in the CS coffin. It was one of their most successful engines. There is still a large market for the CS clones in Africa, South America and some countries in Asia. So we will still see the current clones built for a long time yet.

Emerald

kpgv

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2006, 02:15:22 AM »
Hi,
Are there any of these here to inspect and run to validate what they "say"?
Slick websites and "Yes" men in "Customer Service" mean nothing to me.
I am curious, but remain unconvinced, and a little skeptical.
Anyone own and run one of these (Kirloskar) here now?

Kevin


 

rpg52

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 03:02:07 AM »
Check out their website, according to that, they produce four listeroids, 6/1, 8/1, 12/2, and 16/2.  All direct injected, all standard bore and stroke.  They offer a 12 month guarantee too.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

mamad

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 04:41:12 PM »

I personaly bleave that all Indian engines are only some "JUNK" against British and American engines!
During all my life I didnot buy any Indian engines and I always repaired used and old British engines and after an overhauling they are ready for another long time working!
But British engines are not producing yet and as we are oblige to have a better selection  between "BAD and WORTH" then I think Kirloskar is producing some BAD engines!
 

rpg52

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2006, 12:25:14 AM »
Mamad,
Thanks for the insight. 
What other Indian or Chinese engine manufacturers do you see in Iran?
Are there any that are "good" from your point of view?
Which ones are "better"?
Thanks,
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

mamad

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Re: India is listening
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2006, 02:57:17 PM »
Hello Ray

You welcome! but after this, I afraid to go to Indian restaurants!!

They are PLENTY of Chinese and Indian engines manufacturers in Iran that I donot know all of that names as I didnot pay attention to them. 

Me and some of my friends in U.K are working on a project for finding some good sources for the Engines and the Alternators(not slow speed).

About the Alternators, isnot any problems as they are some good sources in China that have CE !

But our main problem is for finding a good source for the engines. I searched alot and finaly we found that the best sources in China are some factories that are producing some engines under license of the famous European or Japanese factories! the prices of this engines are a little high but always when I want to buy some things ,I remind an old Iranian proverb that say " British say; we arenot too rich to buy cheap things!" 

Ray,I will ask about the slow speed Chinese and Indian engines in Iran market and will inform you about the best sellers to the Iranian Farmers .

All the best

Mamad