RAB:
i fully understand the lube process inside the lister, how it oils the mains, the big end, and everything else
even if i don't fully buy into how the lister engineers decided to go about it.
and i understand fully that it has been proven to work with the metallurgy of the day, the oils they were using and the
fuel they burned. but...
but, you are insinuating that the lube system is still inadequate, when it patently isn't.
there needs to be sufficient oil being splashed up to the underside of the piston to provide some assurance of cooling for the piston
crown/head.
not all engines rely on splash cooling of the piston, so there doesn't "need" to be any such thing.
you're talking like a "ricer" bob, go faster stripes don't improve the engineering. nor do big bore exhausts or any of that other crap.
assuming all else is proven to be ok with the OP engine, timing correct, injection adequate, and not overloaded while running
i am left with some concern as to whether or not there is sufficient oil being thrown up under the piston, that is why i suggested
checking the oil level to determine for sure there is adequate splash getting up there.
why make that assumption?
the instant you make that assumption you close and lock a bunch of doors and refuse to look behind them.
it is not a logical assumption to make either, splash lube systems have worked perfectly well for a century, sometimes on the same actual engine, but you appear to want to assume that in this case several fundamental laws of physics have changed and there must be something wrong with the design of the splash lube system.
as i state i have no idea how the original determined that the oil level was correct, is there simply a fill plug that you fill till it runs out?
if so is this fill plug on a removable cover? is this cover the original for this engine? if the plug is in a removable cover how can one determine for sure the cover and its fill hole is proper for his engine?
How can you claim to fully understand the CS lube system, and then not know how it works?
You have a split sump and weir, with this system you can put 4 pints behind the weir and 4 gallons in the sump, it doesn't matter what you do, you have to lose all 4 gallons, every last drop, from the sump before the oil level behind the weir changes a millimetre.
You have butterfly nut securing a filler for the sump, if you can see oil there is oil in the sump, you can add oil till it runs out on the ground if you like, you're only filling the sump.
STATIONARY engine, not subject to the things traction or marine engines are, so you can stick to all sorts of bullet proof practices and designs that literally do no have a failure mode, such as weir and sump and splash lube.
What part of this don't you get? The CS lube system (at least as far as the weir/sump and splash) doesn't have a failure mode, which is why engines like mine are half a century and more old and still as sweet as a nut, because it takes real idiots like rab filling them with synthetic detergent oils to eventually kill them.
You can even cut the external oil supply line to the lube pump which supplies the mains etc and not kill it, it will still run.
i do know that lister toyed with all sorts of changes over the years, so i would not just assume there is adequate oil without filling to proper level, removing the crankcase cover and seeing for sure it is up just under the big end cap nuts, if it were me i would just so i could
eliminate that possibility.
like I said, you claim you understand the lister model then make silly mistakes like this, provided you have any oil in the sump you can't help but have the correct level behind the weir.....
the only problem here is self declared experts second guessing what lister said, usually with the excuse "oh, technology has moved on since then" which is a crock of shit because we are not trying to apply a 1930's regime to a 2008 japanese motorbike engine.
the laws of physics haven't moved on.
brains and engineering ability have taken a massive retrograde step.
TO QUOTE LISTER
Fuel MUST be a distillate, not a residual, nor a blend thereof (how many people actually understand that, I ask myself)
specific gravity no greater than 0.88, unless specific exceptions like Texaco 811 diesel gas oil
viscocity not greater than 50 seconds Redwood at 100F
ashphalt not greater than 0.5%
flashpoint not lower than 150F
sulphur not greater than 1%
calorific value not less than 19,000 B Th U / lb
LUBE oil
specific gravity 0.93
open flash 410F
viscocity at 70/140/212F - 1035/112/46 seconds Redwood
pour test 5F ASTM
but hey, FUCK THAT eh, I found this recipe for fuel / lube oil on the internet that you can make out of dead cats and coffee grinds and you filter it through cigarette butts and sanitary towels and it is all a big con by engine makers and big oil there is this guy who gets 100 mpg running on distilled water imagine that and anyway there is this nice english gentleman who owns loads of old tractors and things and he says they spend all day out in the field ploughing and come in better than new because technology has moved on you see and kawasaki jetski oil is ace stuff and...........
i have to agree with others that have posted that the 6/1 cannot produce enough heat under normal operation to turn anything red hot
but it is possible that there is some reason that there is not enough oil getting up under the piston crown/head to carry away what heat there is built up there, asking the heat to transfer from the piston to the line then on to the coolant is asking a bit much and does not follow standard engineering practice.
bob, I grew up around listers, I've seen em working all over the world, especially cs types, I've been to the old factory and have known some of the engineers, and I'm an engineer by trade myself.
let me tell you something.
I do not know for a fact that cs pistons require splash cooling, or that any oil that gets on them is more than merely incidental.
I do not know that because I never asked that question, listers never published that fact, and the only people who could answer it now are dead.
you, and others here, are however assuming something, and then further assuming that that thing ain't happening, and then further assuming what might be the problem, this is known, as not one of you have done any actual documented testing, as pure fantasy, or, more eloquently, pure bullshit.
stop looking for problems that don't exist, they stop you from looking at the obvious answers right in front of your face.
if i recall he also reports that the engine seems tighter after it has been working at load, seems like he needs to determine why this is taking place,, usually this is an early warning sign of something that most generally will shorten the life of an otherwise good engine.
didn't he have a bent rod?
did the guy measure ring gap and bore?
did the guy do any of the other basic diagnostic checks, like first ticking off and eliminating variables, approved grade of fuel, check, approved grade of lube, check, etc...
nope, the guy is presumably running a detergent oil that keeps the crap in suspension, this utterly destroying the fundamental lube system design principles, so oil + crap that should have settled out is getting splashed on the piston, oil is evaporating and crap is depositing like stalactites.
ask me why I said this in reply to the bullshit merchant, go on, ask me how often I have seen it, and ask me how often it was cured by switching to the right oil after flushing and cleaning.
or don't, I don't care.
btw,, nice to see GuyFawkes chiming in again
he always livens the discussion here
bob g
it isn't a discussion bob, it is a bunch of blind people being led around by the nose by a bunch of bullshitters.
when I was more active here I scanned and provided copies in pdf format of the lister cs books and CAV books and so on, and they tell you EVERYTHING you need to know, except people don't like that because first and foremost they aren't looking for the truth, they are looking for an answer that says that they can continue to run the fucking engine on KFC hot wings and they don't want to know about anything else, even when a few months pass and they come back bleating about how such and such isn't exactly right and does anyone know what the problem is?
ask me why I quid computer tech support 13 years ago, "yeah, pack the computer up in the box it came in and take it back to the shop"
"is it really as bad as that?"
"yes, I'm afraid so."
"so what's do I tell them in the shop then?"
"tell them you are too fucking stupid to own a computer."