Author Topic: Red Hot  (Read 23266 times)

compig

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2008, 10:40:04 PM »
Just in case you were referring to my comment on oil grade , perhaps I should clarify. I said nothing about the generation of oil to use , just the grade. The grade originally recommended is still appropriate today , but a contemporary specification can certainly used with advantage. Mono grade single viscosity oil can be obtained in modern high detergent Diesel type in the viscosity's I mentioned , but this should not be used in an engine that has not been cleaned out first. Straight oil is not a good idea.

Just to comment further on the original post , I have seen pistons with carboned oil on the underside of the piston crown on petrol and diesel engines that were running fine apart from worn rings and bores. However , I still maintain that piston could never reach red heat for anything other than a few seconds without catastrophic failure. I'm involved in tuning high performance turbo cars and even with outputs of upto 1000 BHP from a 2Ltr , 4 cylinder engine , I still don't see heat issues on pistons unless the fuel air ratio goes too weak.

Lister CS engines running at 650 rpm producing 6 BHP from such large displacement would struggle to have any over heating issues.



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GuyFawkes

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2008, 11:21:59 PM »
fawkes, as usual, has nothing to say constructively. 


That's probably because I don't give a bugger about being popular.

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Not even read the thread. 

Except I did, every word.

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no mention of multigrade oil, no mention  in replies of piston getting red hot.  However lendusaquid has a problem with coking-oil under the piston crown.  Only one thing doing that and it is heat. 

No mention till I mentioned em, cos they are all relevant.

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Maybe not that much but enough.  Loads of waffle about diesel, but Lenusaquid is NOT using diesel as his fuel, only for starting and shutdown.  The MAIN fuel is waste veggie oil + acetone, an entirely different ball game than just using the fuel as indicated by Lister 50 years ago viz 90% boils off by 357 celsius, flash point (min) 55 Celsius.  We all know the chip pans do not boil away oil even at 180.  They may smoke and ignite easily and explode if water is thrown over them

Lister never said or intended the CS run on modern diesel, which wasn't even invented back then.

Fact is they did specify the fuel though, and fact is the OP doesn't have assayed fuel, so fact is the fuel is going to be part of the problem, not the piston temperatures.

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No one has said you need 1000 degrees to degrade oil.  There are plenty out there who have had dipstick oil heaters in their time and have found the oil chars.

"do pistons get red hot?" see, you're one of them polite but condescending gentleman collector types, you mealymouth it to death and get nowhere fast, fact is what I said, piston temps are nowhere near what people are talking about, piston temps aren't the issue here.

Unless the OP gets told to drop all the bullshit he is never going to find the answer.

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Apple wood has been, or was, used for glass-blowing moulds for many a year.  They were apparently the bees knees for glass blowing in their day.  Yes, pistons do melt.  The pulling fraternity will admit that.  Usually using alloy pistons though, not cast iron.  And over fuelling, of course.  Some Perkins engines, at one time were a little prone to piston overheating.  Some oils will char around 300.  It may well be a matter of not enough in that area to keep the oil circulating, in which case there will likely be wear on the small end bush at an earlier stage than it should happen.  The centre of the piston will be the hottest part - however hot that may be.

Fuel will not burn unless it comes in contact with oxygen.  Large droplets will protect the inside long enough to cause particulates which will then only combust at high temps and slowly.  Compare anthracite with wood.

you're talking out of your ass in an attempt to appear as though you know what you are talking about.

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We are not looking at 'mean piston temps', just maximum in one small area.

see above

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Forks, answer the posters problem, explain the deposits, and more importantly stop being negative.

I see nothing constructive in his post at all.  Might just as well have kept quiet for all the good points (zero) he has made.

what, like you you mean, talking about the OP burning WVO + acetone?

see, you don't know what you're talking about+, maybe you think you do, and maybe you can fool others who don't know any better....

the dude has deposits on the UNDERSIDE OF THE FUCKING PISTON, you know, the side that never sees the WVO or combustion process, the side that for all your rhetoric is in an oxygen starved environment, the side that is even cooler, the side with far lower temperature excursions, the side that gets splashed with, wait for it..... ENGINE LUBE OIL.

Ideally, you know, that non detergent stuff, that has let the crap settle out of suspension, that therefore doesn't carry crap up to the underside of the piston, in a process not dissimilar to an oily stalagtite formation...

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One might wonder why we (or Listers) bother(ed) to cool these engines.  200 degrees Celsius should not even make the paint smoke on a head.  We would never warp a head, blow a gasket or any other malady we actually experience with over-heated engines.

Oh so bloody superior and oh so bloody stupid at the same time, just what parts of the CS did lister add water cooling to eh? Ever actually thought about that?

I suppose it has literally never occurred to you that a 4.5" bore piston has a 14 inch long piston ring wrapped around it carrying the bulk of the torque, coefficient of linear expansion, bye bye ring gap, bye bye engine, same goes for the head.

your comment, facetious or otherwise, is first year apprentice, not yet graduated from the broom handle, stupid.

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We also know that with synthetic oil one can throw away the full flow filter and run only with a bypass type filter with extra fuel economy (due to no pressure drop across the filter).  Not something I would necessarily recommend. 

"we know"? you got a mouse in your pocket when you say "we"?
cos nobody else knows this, sure, dumbasses do it, hell, dumbasses use toilet rolls for oil filters, but I've never seen it approved anywhere ever by any standards body or engine manufacturer.

feel free to prove me wrong

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All my old tractors have a bypass filter and most are full pressure systems.  Most or all started life on straight non-detergent, but they all benefit from detergent oil, due to cleaner running (once the accumulated crud has all been removed)  The advantages over gummed rings is remarkable, and modern lubricants are to be recommended wherever they can be accommodated.  Oil is cheap.  Engine failures are not.

see, you're making all these claims again and talking basically bullshit, the way you state it gummed rings are an inevitable by-product of non detergent oil.

which is complete and utter bullshit.

you compare a false example, tractors that aren't worked and aren't subject to a normal maintenance (and oil) regimen (which I'm guessing you don't even know what I'm talking about, I bet you don't even have any flushing or winterising oil in stock, just your precious synth) and the INEVITABLE results of that sort of abuse with a shortcoming in the lube.

toys that are infrequently used do not compare to working stuff that gets cuffed every single day, I've got a pug 405 diesel outside, and an old series 2 landie with BMC 2.2

They both get the same oil at the same time, a trade barrel of 15w40 mineral, in the pug, which is cuffed every day, and therefore filtered every day and condensate (and therefore acidity) driven off every day the oil goes from one year to the next, in the landie which doesn't get much use it has a lot harder time of it.

guess what oil I use in the vtwin motorbike? except it's been parked up for a year, so flushing oil then filled with inhibiting oil.

guess how many gummed rings I have had in my entire life...

and you people wonder why doug (and me in the past) walk away in disgust.
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lendusaquid

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2008, 11:53:11 PM »
Anyone know the piston/cylinder clearance?.I would like to check it out before putting back together.

Stan

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2008, 02:35:28 AM »
And here I thought the forum was getting boring!  ;D
Stan

mobile_bob

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2008, 05:14:08 AM »
RAB:

i fully understand the lube process inside the lister, how it oils the mains, the big end, and everything else
even if i don't fully buy into how the lister engineers decided to go about it.

and i understand fully that it has been proven to work with the metallurgy of the day, the oils they were using and the
fuel they burned.  but...

there needs to be sufficient oil being splashed up to the underside of the piston to provide some assurance of cooling for the piston
crown/head.

assuming all else is proven to be ok with the OP engine, timing correct, injection adequate, and not overloaded while running
i am left with some concern as to whether or not there is sufficient oil being thrown up under the piston, that is why i suggested
checking the oil level to determine for sure there is adequate splash getting up there.

as i state i have no idea how the original determined that the oil level was correct, is there simply a fill plug that you fill till it runs out?
if so is this fill plug on a removable cover? is this cover the original for this engine? if the plug is in a removable cover how can one determine for sure the cover and its fill hole is proper for his engine?

i do know that lister toyed with all sorts of changes over the years, so i would not just assume there is adequate oil without filling to proper level, removing the crankcase cover and seeing for sure it is up just under the big end cap nuts, if it were me i would just so i could
eliminate that possibility.

i have to agree with others that have posted that the 6/1 cannot produce enough heat under normal operation to turn anything red hot
but it is possible that there is some reason that there is not enough oil getting up under the piston crown/head to carry away what heat there is built up there, asking the heat to transfer from the piston to the line then on to the coolant is asking a bit much and does not follow standard engineering practice.

if i recall he also reports that the engine seems tighter after it has been working at load, seems like he needs to determine why this is taking place,, usually this is an early warning sign of something that most generally will shorten the life of an otherwise good engine.

btw,, nice to see GuyFawkes chiming in again
he always livens the discussion here :)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

compig

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2008, 09:42:01 AM »
Faults need investigation , speculation is not investigation !!  However , one likely cause could be worn rings / piston or bore , or all three , causing excessive blow by and heat build up in the piston due to the rings not taking their share away. 
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GuyFawkes

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 10:11:34 AM »
RAB:

i fully understand the lube process inside the lister, how it oils the mains, the big end, and everything else
even if i don't fully buy into how the lister engineers decided to go about it.

and i understand fully that it has been proven to work with the metallurgy of the day, the oils they were using and the
fuel they burned.  but...

but, you are insinuating that the lube system is still inadequate, when it patently isn't.

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there needs to be sufficient oil being splashed up to the underside of the piston to provide some assurance of cooling for the piston
crown/head.

not all engines rely on splash cooling of the piston, so there doesn't "need" to be any such thing.

you're talking like a "ricer" bob, go faster stripes don't improve the engineering. nor do big bore exhausts or any of that other crap.

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assuming all else is proven to be ok with the OP engine, timing correct, injection adequate, and not overloaded while running
i am left with some concern as to whether or not there is sufficient oil being thrown up under the piston, that is why i suggested
checking the oil level to determine for sure there is adequate splash getting up there.

why make that assumption?
the instant you make that assumption you close and lock a bunch of doors and refuse to look behind them.

it is not a logical assumption to make either, splash lube systems have worked perfectly well for a century, sometimes on the same actual engine, but you appear to want to assume that in this case several fundamental laws of physics have changed and there must be something wrong with the design of the splash lube system.

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as i state i have no idea how the original determined that the oil level was correct, is there simply a fill plug that you fill till it runs out?
if so is this fill plug on a removable cover? is this cover the original for this engine? if the plug is in a removable cover how can one determine for sure the cover and its fill hole is proper for his engine?

How can you claim to fully understand the CS lube system, and then not know how it works?

You have a split sump and weir, with this system you can put 4 pints behind the weir and 4 gallons in the sump, it doesn't matter what you do, you have to lose all 4 gallons, every last drop, from the sump before the oil level behind the weir changes a millimetre.

You have  butterfly nut securing a filler for the sump, if you can see oil there is oil in the sump, you can add oil till it runs out on the ground if you like, you're only filling the sump.

STATIONARY engine, not subject to the things traction or marine engines are, so you can stick to all sorts of bullet proof practices and designs that literally do no have a failure mode, such as weir and sump and splash lube.

What part of this don't you get? The CS lube system (at least as far as the weir/sump and splash) doesn't have a failure mode, which is why engines like mine are half a century and more old and still as sweet as a nut, because it takes real idiots like rab filling them with synthetic detergent oils to eventually kill them.

You can even cut the external oil supply line to the lube pump which supplies the mains etc and not kill it, it will still run.


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i do know that lister toyed with all sorts of changes over the years, so i would not just assume there is adequate oil without filling to proper level, removing the crankcase cover and seeing for sure it is up just under the big end cap nuts, if it were me i would just so i could
eliminate that possibility.

like I said, you claim you understand the lister model then make silly mistakes like this, provided you have any oil in the sump you can't help but have the correct level behind the weir.....

the only problem here is self declared experts second guessing what lister said, usually with the excuse "oh, technology has moved on since then" which is a crock of shit because we are not trying to apply a 1930's regime to a 2008 japanese motorbike engine.

the laws of physics haven't moved on.

brains and engineering ability have taken a massive retrograde step.

TO QUOTE LISTER

Fuel MUST be a distillate, not a residual, nor a blend thereof (how many people actually understand that, I ask myself)
specific gravity no greater than 0.88, unless specific exceptions like Texaco 811 diesel gas oil
viscocity not greater than 50 seconds Redwood at 100F
ashphalt not greater than 0.5%
flashpoint not lower than 150F
sulphur not greater than 1%
calorific value not less than 19,000 B Th U / lb

LUBE oil

specific gravity 0.93
open flash 410F
viscocity at 70/140/212F - 1035/112/46 seconds Redwood
pour test 5F ASTM

but hey, FUCK THAT eh, I found this recipe for fuel / lube oil on the internet that you can make out of dead cats and coffee grinds and you filter it through cigarette butts and sanitary towels and it is all a big con by engine makers and big oil there is this guy who gets 100 mpg running on distilled water imagine that and anyway there is this nice english gentleman who owns loads of old tractors and things and he says they spend all day out in the field ploughing and come in better than new because technology has moved on you see and kawasaki jetski oil is ace stuff and...........


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i have to agree with others that have posted that the 6/1 cannot produce enough heat under normal operation to turn anything red hot
but it is possible that there is some reason that there is not enough oil getting up under the piston crown/head to carry away what heat there is built up there, asking the heat to transfer from the piston to the line then on to the coolant is asking a bit much and does not follow standard engineering practice.

bob, I grew up around listers, I've seen em working all over the world, especially cs types, I've been to the old factory and have known some of the engineers, and I'm an engineer by trade myself.

let me tell you something.

I do not know for a fact that cs pistons require splash cooling, or that any oil that gets on them is more than merely incidental.

I do not know that because I never asked that question, listers never published that fact, and the only people who could answer it now are dead.

you, and others here, are however assuming something, and then further assuming that that thing ain't happening, and then further assuming what might be the problem, this is known, as not one of you have done any actual documented testing, as pure fantasy, or, more eloquently, pure bullshit.

stop looking for problems that don't exist, they stop you from looking at the obvious answers right in front of your face.


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if i recall he also reports that the engine seems tighter after it has been working at load, seems like he needs to determine why this is taking place,, usually this is an early warning sign of something that most generally will shorten the life of an otherwise good engine.

didn't he have a bent rod?
did the guy measure ring gap and bore?
did the guy do any of the other basic diagnostic checks, like first ticking off and eliminating variables, approved grade of fuel, check, approved grade of lube, check, etc...

nope, the guy is presumably running a detergent oil that keeps the crap in suspension, this utterly destroying the fundamental lube system design principles, so oil + crap that should have settled out is getting splashed on the piston, oil is evaporating and crap is depositing like stalactites.

ask me why I said this in reply to the bullshit merchant, go on, ask me how often I have seen it, and ask me how often it was cured by switching to the right oil after flushing and cleaning.

or don't, I don't care.

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btw,, nice to see GuyFawkes chiming in again
he always livens the discussion here :)

bob g

it isn't a discussion bob, it is a bunch of blind people being led around by the nose by a bunch of bullshitters.

when I was more active here I scanned and provided copies in pdf format of the lister cs books and CAV books and so on, and they tell you EVERYTHING you need to know, except people don't like that because first and foremost they aren't looking for the truth, they are looking for an answer that says that they can continue to run the fucking engine on KFC hot wings and they don't want to know about anything else, even when a few months pass and they come back bleating about how such and such isn't exactly right and does anyone know what the problem is?

ask me why I quid computer tech support 13 years ago, "yeah, pack the computer up in the box it came in and take it back to the shop"

"is it really as bad as that?"

"yes, I'm afraid so."

"so what's do I tell them in the shop then?"

"tell them you are too fucking stupid to own a computer."

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Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

GuyFawkes

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 10:52:19 AM »
Faults need investigation , speculation is not investigation !!  However , one likely cause could be worn rings / piston or bore , or all three , causing excessive blow by and heat build up in the piston due to the rings not taking their share away. 

Generally (and taking into consideration your earlier post in this thread) you're right, however, in this case the CS lube system and lube and fuel oil spec, if adhered to, make such things an irrellevance.

Sure, the OP may also have worn rings (chromed bores didn't usually wear) but even so the bitch would keep chugging along, if it starts it will run.

You, and bob, in your day jobs know better than what you are posting here.

I mentioned the Pug 405 diesel and the landie with BMC 2.2 diesel, both running on the same 15W40 mineral oil, and due to duty cycles they both reacts differently.

the bullshitter talks about oil being cheaper than wrecking an engine, I've been sitting thinking since last night, I can't recall ever wrecking an engine, the Pug is a prime candidate....

I bought it nearly 3 years ago on fleabay for 199 quid, in mileage terms it's about 10k short of being due a cambelt, in age terms it is overdue, but it is a false economy to fit a cambelt to a car I paid less than 200 quid for 3 years ago.

The engine is a 4 pot non turbo 2 litre, typically i change gear at 1500 rpm and typically I don't exceed 2500 rpm, except on long motorway runs where 3000 rpm is about 80 mph.

Now and again it gets to tow, when it tows it is usually a significant weight, like another car on a trailer, for 200 miles or more.

When it ain't towing it gets cuffed, I may be bumbling along at 1200 rpm but I can floor that sucker and cuff it instead of changing down and caning it.

You know what, it basically doesn't burn oil, it is a diesel and it likes to be cuffed, though on the one hand I can't ever remember blowing an engine (the "sock" honda 750's back in the day don't count, we were trying to get stupid power out of them, and even then it was always the stock mickey mouse camshaft bearings that were the problem) and the present abuse the pug gets makes it a serious contender for abandonment by the side of the road with a snapped cambelt, but on the other hand, I don't know, I've got about 650 miles to do this week, and I'm not particularly worried, and I don't have breakdown / recover insurance, that old cambelt may well hang on in there another 100k miles, I only open the bonnet to top up the windscreen washer.

The moral here is people freak about things that don't matter much, while blithely ignoring the fundamental things that do matter a great deal.

THis is a sub 200 quid car, but I don't run veg oil + acetone, just pump diesel, and I don't run esoteric lube oil, just trade barrel 15W40 mineral, and most important of all I cuff the engine every single day of its life, cuff, not cane, flog or abuse, cuff as in work.

So far, apart from the annual cost of oil and fuel filters, a gallon of oil, and a gallon of pump diesel every sixty miles or so, this car has cost me nothing, not a red cent, and it literally could not be more reliable or practical.

my motorcycle, well, that had flushing oil run through and then inhibiting oil, because I took it off the road to do a complete rewire and redesign, not touching the engine though, and what should have been a two month project got sidelined and now 2 years have passed, and I really MUST get it sorted, but the fact is it has a different regime and gets treated different and doesn't suffer because of it.

Now the landie with BMC 2.2, there is a case it point, it is neither cuffed regularly nor is it prepped for being idle, maybe every other week I'll fire it up and bimble around a wee bit, but it doesn't get worked like it should, and you can tell.

Not because it is older tech than the pug or the motorbike, just because it ain't cuffed regular, and if I was dumb enough to fill its tank with WVO it would act even more unhappy about its lot in life.

There isn't a damn thing wrong with the landie, or the fuel, or the lube, the only thing that make it unhappy is being treated like a toy.

But, it'll get there, I have too many other projects on the go, but it will get there, and in the meantime despite being unhappy it isn't deteriorating, because everything that goes into it or is done to it is within spec, not some half assed idea that came of teh intarweb.

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Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

compig

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 11:33:01 AM »
Fawkes , I think u and I might get on well !! 
These days I try to avoid getting dragged into forum arguments created by keyboard engineers , because I learned in the early days of the interweb that there are non more deaf than those that don't wanna listen !!

I have to admit that I'm basing my comments on general practice as I'm still on the bottom rung of the CS ladder !!

I'm really interested in your comments on the use of non detergent oil in the CS , my 1st inclination would be to use a mono grade diesel detergent oil of the correct viscosity ? 
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GuyFawkes

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2008, 12:14:05 PM »
Fawkes , I think u and I might get on well !! 
These days I try to avoid getting dragged into forum arguments created by keyboard engineers , because I learned in the early days of the interweb that there are non more deaf than those that don't wanna listen !!

I have to admit that I'm basing my comments on general practice as I'm still on the bottom rung of the CS ladder !!

I'm really interested in your comments on the use of non detergent oil in the CS , my 1st inclination would be to use a mono grade diesel detergent oil of the correct viscosity ? 

I see you've bought a CS SOM like mine, so no indian clone wiredness, you have a weir and sump with positive displacement pump to mains etc.

The weir and sump system is designed (with the vast bulk of the oil being stored in the sump) so that non detergent oils can deposit crap out of suspension in the tranquil pool of the sump.

You can indeed run a CS on detergent oil, but being aware that doing so prevents crap dropping out of suspension you need to add an extra lube oil pump and full flow particulate filter.

Why? Why go to the extra expense and hassle to get something that doesn't work any better than the original, which actually works worse as it saps extra power and adds extra modes of failure.

----------------------------------

If you're new to CS, nota bene, the external oil pump has a handle, unless the set was run in the last couple of hours, use the handle to prime the system, at least a dozen full strokes.

Change the oil every three months regardless.

If you in engineering as a business here is an interesting little experiment for you, I'm not going to tell you the answers because it only works when you learn it for yourself.

Get two small jars, thoroughly cleaned.

Put exactly 0.5 litres of oil in each jar, one old fashioned monograde non-detergent mineral oil, one synthetic detergent multigrade.

Put exactly 5cc (use a syringe) of distilled water into each jar, stir well with a spoon.

Put one new shell bearing in each jar.

write the date on the jars and put them on a shelf somewhere open to the atmosphere

come back in three months

MOST IMPORTANT, TAKE PICTURES with the jars backlit

assay the oil, pay particular attention to acidity and metals leeched from the shells

==================================

without spoiling the results, it is pretty obvious that detergent oils hold everything in suspension, so do not self purify, it should also be pretty obvious that synthetic oils are more robust, so continue to look and act like oil long after they turn significantly acidic.

You want ample evidence of human stupidity just look at people talking about these very processes to purify WVO etc before it becomes a suitable fuel, then blithely discarding this observable fact when it comes to lube oil.

The greatest feature of monoweight non detergent mineral oil is that when it is turning into crap it looks like it.

Multigrade synthetics can be filtered and cleaned and they look as good as new.

DISTILLATE, not RESIDUAL, the magic words from Lister that everyone ignores, applies to lube oil and fuel equally.

Distillate is heated, evaporated, condensed and collected, all temperature controlled.

EVERYTHING ELSE, including alfa laval centrifuging, leaving 6 months, filtering through bentonite, is by definition not distalliate, but residual.

synthetics ARE BETTER than minerals, IN CERTAIN APPLICATIONS, I wouldn't run a Honda CBX which circulates the entire oil capacity in six seconds at redline on mineral.

A CS is not a CBX.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

GuyFawkes

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2008, 12:36:31 PM »


The greatest feature of monoweight non detergent mineral oil is that when it is turning into crap it looks like it.

I forgot, the other greatest feture of monoweight non detergent mineral oil is that when it has turned into crap you remove it, wipe the sump clean, and put the old oil in the old oil contained, which you just emptied into the fuel tank, because this new lot of old engine oil will self clean by settling, and the top bit is then clean enough to go into the fuel tank.

with detergent oils you have to filter the bejeeesus out of them before you can shove them through an injection pump

synthtic oils you can never burn, they will always make shellac and other weird combustion by products.

ahhh, I miss running my old B44 on Castrol R, oil change every 1000 and the settled old oil went into the fuel at 50:1, just about worked out right for the next 1000...

that engine was both bulletproof and sweet as a nut, almost unheard of for an OHV BSA single running high compression, smelled beautiful too.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

compig

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2008, 12:40:09 PM »
Interesting stuff !!  Being the curious type I will indeed try your experiment.

I've been going thru all my old Stationary Engine mags recently and found a superb 2 part article about a guy that ran a CS SOM for 10 years from 1979 in a remote farm house without grid. There's a huge amount of really useful info and I noticed that he used one of the specific oils that Lister originally recommended , namely Texaco Ursa Super LA , in 10w or 20w as appropriate. Must look that one up to check the spec.

Just gonna look for those CS and CAV manuals u PDF'd on here , good bedtime reading !!
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

compig

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2008, 12:56:25 PM »


ahhh, I miss running my old B44 on Castrol R, oil change every 1000 and the settled old oil went into the fuel at 50:1, just about worked out right for the next 1000...

that engine was both bulletproof and sweet as a nut, almost unheard of for an OHV BSA single running high compression, smelled beautiful too.

I'm a bike nut to !!  Just in the process of restoring my '52 Vincent Rapide. Have quite a few other's tho , my taste's are quite eclectic ! From CZ's to Vincent !!  Ducati's are my main passion though , particularly the 60's and 70's bevel cam singles. One of my favourite riding experiences was my 1922 Triumph 550 SD , everything was manual , handchange 3 speed box , etc , compression braking was better than the actual brakes !!  One thing I really liked was the total loss oil system , one pump every 10 miles or so depending on engine load !! Gave u a real sense of being part of the machine. Thing is , I sold it in a fit of mental aberration when someone offered me silly money for it !! Arrrrgh !! So , now I keep looking for the holy grail of Vintage Triumphs , the Ricardo 4 valve !!  Thing is , trying to find one under £10k is looking impossible.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 01:01:05 PM by compig »
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

compig

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2008, 04:11:21 PM »
Hasn't that point just been made ?
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

GuyFawkes

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Re: Red Hot
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2008, 05:00:07 PM »

I'm a bike nut to !!  Just in the process of restoring my '52 Vincent Rapide. Have quite a few other's tho , my taste's are quite eclectic ! From CZ's to Vincent !!  Ducati's are my main passion though , particularly the 60's and 70's bevel cam singles. One of my favourite riding experiences was my 1922 Triumph 550 SD , everything was manual , handchange 3 speed box , etc , compression braking was better than the actual brakes !!  One thing I really liked was the total loss oil system , one pump every 10 miles or so depending on engine load !! Gave u a real sense of being part of the machine. Thing is , I sold it in a fit of mental aberration when someone offered me silly money for it !! Arrrrgh !! So , now I keep looking for the holy grail of Vintage Triumphs , the Ricardo 4 valve !!  Thing is , trying to find one under £10k is looking impossible.
Quote

ooer missus, original 900ss desmo's were my ride of choice back in the day, though a couple of years ago I ended up with a full raceco / termignoni guzzi 1100 sport, the proper red one with carbs...  had to sell it, that or kiss my licence bye bye... bought that off dr john, of norton single tuning fame.

current sled is an old TR1 which has been modified a wee bit, as a sort of homage to the old vinnies (even has HRD footrests which sends gentleman vinni owners apoplectic) some pics on page 2 of the gallery
https://surfbaud.dyndns.org/sites/photo%20album/index.php?twg_album=bikes&twg_offset=0
usual warning, home web server on cable modem so not too snappy, not all my bikes by a long shot btw.

worst selling mistakes I ever made was a 120 panther and an old sidevalve bsa v twin that I never actually rode, but swapped for a running jampot norton.

never actually run a vinnie myself, but for a couple of years was forever bumping into the bowden boy at various locations through europe, riding his dad's old prince, dad was chairman of the vmcc back then, but used to borrow a mates comet once in a while.

as for the ricardo...
http://www.yesterdays.nl/triumph-1923-ricardo-p-394.html
way too much for a trumpet

sure they'd take the vinnie off your hands... vbg
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.