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Author Topic: Gasoline & Kerosine Mix?  (Read 10716 times)
BACKROAD
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« on: June 29, 2008, 03:29:30 am »

Anyone have any thoughts on doing a little gasoline and kerosine mixing in a gas generator.  I've been running my 195 Dungfong (as in Changfa) on straight Tiki Torch oil, which I guess is mostly Kerosine, and it's been doing wonderfully.  Of course I'm mixing a little two stroke oil at a 50-1 mix for the injector pump and injector.

I've been adding about a 1/2 gallon of the torch oil to about 4 gallons of gas to my gas generator and so far have no ill effects, but I'm a little nervous to go any further.
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Dung-fong #1 - Mfg. Date 1980/8kw Winco gen...In pieces
Dung-fong #2 - Mfg. Date also 1980/8kw Winco gen...runs
      totally awesome after 10+ years of sitting.
1987 Ford F350, crewcab, dually 4X4.....Cummins Powered...
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2008, 08:01:49 am »

It will all be about octane rating. Most of my tractors will burn kerosene if working hard enough.  They have a C.R. of around 4 - 5:1.  Also rememder you are richening the mixture by adding kerosene so the carb may need adjusting to prevent carbon deposits in the engine and CO in the exhaust, thus wasting any benefit of adding a cheaper fuel.

Regards, RAB
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JimB
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2008, 04:37:45 pm »

A good friend of mine used to run a two stroke chain saw mixture in his Kawasaki gas generator when that was all he had. The engine quit and when I tore it down the exhaust valve was stuck open by carbon deposits. A little cleaning and it worked fine. Just something to watch for.
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Tom
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2008, 02:21:43 am »

Back before he started running the tiki torch fuel we discussed what it consisted of and no one knew. So Backroad is playing it safe.
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Tom
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BACKROAD
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2008, 04:46:36 am »

Me thinks that I'm not going to experiment with the gas generator any further.  I tried a mixture of about 2 gallons of gas and a 1/2 gallon of the torch oil.  The generator ran great but it wouldn't shut down unless I choked it fully.

When it comes to the Dungfong 195 Diesel, yes I'm playing it safe by adding the 50-1 2 stroke mix.  I was hoping that it would add some extra lubrication to the injector pump and injector, just in case the tiki torch oil (kerosine) didn't have enough lubricating properties.  I guess I can elilminate the 2 stroke mix and be safe, HUH? SmileySmileySmiley

I've currently got about 500 gallons of the torch oil sitting at the house at less than a buck a gallon.   I'm kind of a happy camper.  I pick up another pallet of it every time I go into town (about a 70 mile trip).  Just wish that my little Jeep Comanche could handle more than one pallet at a time.  One puts it about to the bump stops now.  I'm a little concerned that the person I'm getting the stuff from will find a better deal on selling the rest of it.  Of course I've pre-bought another 4 pallets already. 

Next is to run my Ford F-350 with a Cummins first gen engine on the tiki torch oil.  I'm not expecting any problems since it's a basic mechanical injector pump and no electronics.
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Dung-fong #1 - Mfg. Date 1980/8kw Winco gen...In pieces
Dung-fong #2 - Mfg. Date also 1980/8kw Winco gen...runs
      totally awesome after 10+ years of sitting.
1987 Ford F350, crewcab, dually 4X4.....Cummins Powered...
1956 Willy's all-a-round great four wheeler, VERY CUSTOM....
oliver90owner
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 06:33:44 am »

Kerosene is not the same as diesel (or, it may not be).  Kerosene is 28s Redwood and diesel is 34s.  The lubricity of kerosene is much less than diesel and may damage the IP and injector in a diesel if lubricity is not increased.  Most cold weather road fuel is a mixture of gas oil and burning oil.  As you are over the pond, you mileage and vocabulary may vary.

Regards, RAB
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BACKROAD
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 05:06:26 pm »

OK, I'll look into some diesel additive, but I guess for the time being I'll continue with the two stroke additive just in case.  So far, everything with the DungFong has been great.

If'n I wuz smart enough, I'd probably be doing some recycled vegetabel oil, but I'f the plans aren't laidout for me I'm probably not going to experiment  with the filter and centrifuge and all that.  Old age, ADD and simple fear keep me in the dark ages some times.  & of course I've got a decent supply of WVO from a couple of restaurants if I wanted, but......


Dennis in Bagdad...........................................................................................................AZ..................
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Dung-fong #1 - Mfg. Date 1980/8kw Winco gen...In pieces
Dung-fong #2 - Mfg. Date also 1980/8kw Winco gen...runs
      totally awesome after 10+ years of sitting.
1987 Ford F350, crewcab, dually 4X4.....Cummins Powered...
1956 Willy's all-a-round great four wheeler, VERY CUSTOM....
Tom
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2008, 05:49:56 pm »

Possibly some ATF would be good additive. Lots of people add it to their tanks to boost lubricity and clean the system.
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Tom
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Doug
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2008, 06:45:35 pm »

Me thinks that I'm not going to experiment with the gas generator any further.  I tried a mixture of about 2 gallons of gas and a 1/2 gallon of the torch oil.  The generator ran great but it wouldn't shut down unless I choked it fully.


This used to be a problem on some of the Kohler engines when running hot they would pre ignite the fuel and contimne to run until you choked them.
The factory sugested higher octane fuel ( I am talking about he the strokes like the K440 used in machines like the Tera Jet ) and it was even in the service manual to choke them to a stop if needed.

B&S used to specify you use two head gasket on their flat head 4 stroke engines when running on Keorsene.
Carb adjustments would also be needed ( lean things up ) and power would be reduced a little and fuel ecconomy would improve a little.

Odds are you are running this in a new OHV engine right?
You can't lean up your carb and your running even higher compression ratio than the old flat heads. Odds are you are detonating before the plug ever fires and may do some damage.
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2008, 09:50:44 pm »

Yes, Doug is right on the money.  Either that or there is glowing carbon in the engine which will fire it off and cause over-run.  Both are BAAAAD for the engine.

Regards, RAB
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Doug
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 12:43:39 am »

You can't burn kerosene in an overhead valve engine the compression ratio is just too high, unless you mixed in a wack of Octane booster.....
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Jim Mc
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 03:33:18 am »

Adding middle distillates (diesel, kerosene, jet, furnace) to gasoline for use in a gasoline engine would actually increase the octane rating (resistance to pre-ignition) of the fuel....

I disagree.

My experience doesn't confirm that.  Mixing kerosene or Diesel fuel with gasoline caused the engine to knock heavily under load.

And, from what I read in my internal combustion engine texts, it's pretty clear that increasing the carbon chain length increases the tendency to knock.



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Doug
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 04:17:53 am »

best way to prove that Jim is try it in your car lol (better still not your own car )
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 06:39:59 am »

Doug,

All my 1940s tractors are OHV.  Some were designed to run on TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil), some on gas (petrol).  the compression ratios are about 4:1,  or perhaps a bit higher, for the dual fuel engines.  Kero works fine.

Listers used to supply a spacer to go under the cylinder on some of their engines for conversion to TVO.   The kit also included a heat exchanger manifold and a different, or extra, fuel tank and pipework (for starting on petrol).

Regards, RAB
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Doug
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 12:27:37 am »

Doug,

All my 1940s tractors are OHV.  Some were designed to run on TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil), some on gas (petrol).  the compression ratios are about 4:1,  or perhaps a bit higher, for the dual fuel engines.  Kero works fine.

Listers used to supply a spacer to go under the cylinder on some of their engines for conversion to TVO.   The kit also included a heat exchanger manifold and a different, or extra, fuel tank and pipework (for starting on petrol).

Regards, RAB

Wow TVO I haven't even heard that acronim in so long that I almost forgot it.
What does a litre of that cost at the pumps now?
I bet there are a lot of people looking hard at that again if its cheaper than diesel and petrol.....

When I was kid there was a fellow up the road with a roller. Since you never could buy Kerosene or TVO( never blended and sold here as I recall ) at the pumps here he used ot blend his own ( not rocket science ). He did the yard ( grade and pack for my Dad ) with that beutiful old roler.....
Isn;t it funny how you can rememeber a smell or a whiff of something brings back a memory?
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