cs 6-1

[Lister Rob]

 I have a cs 6-1 and the rad hose broke and got hot, let cool down and never had any compression. Took it down and the head was cracked, replaced that with new pis. rings .I measured the ring gap of the new rings at the bottom of the cyilinder and the gap was 18 thousand, the book said no less than 12 thousand. Put it back together and is burning blue smoke. I homed and cleaned the cyilinder, is there a front or back to the pis. posistion. I have the no. on the rod faceing the oil cover and the dipper is faceing broud side but the book says it sould be end on and cut like a nife but i was afraid to move back because i might not get any or much oil splashing.I thought about putting in 10 thousand over side rings but i was not sure and it maybe to tight .Any info. will be great thanks.
Lister Rob.

[oliver90owner]

Rob,

Just a few pointers.  Was the liner chromed?  If it was, it sounds as though it may have gone and so be a bit oversize.  Honing a chromed bore might be a bit difficult.

10 thou oversize rings will fit a 10 thou oversize bore, not a standard.

10 thou oversize rings would have  an extra 30 thou circumference so would not fit a standard bore without filing.

You should have checked for wear in the ring area by checking the ring clearance and compared it with the reading at the unworn part of the bore.  Alternatively you could have done it with an internal micrometer

Did you check the bore for ovality?  An oval worn bore will not reseat new rings properly.

How have you 'run in' the engine?  If it has been run on light load the rings may not have bedded in properly.

What oil are you using?  A high quality oil such as a synthetic should not be used for this period as it would prevent the initial wear for bedding in the rings from happening.

Did you check the side clearance of the rings, particularly the top ring?   Excessive clearance will convert the rings into oil pumpers.

If the bore is chromed, are your rings cast iron and not chromed? Chrome on chrome will not work.

Were the rings installed in the correct order and particularly the correct way up/down?  Some types of ring will not seat properly upside down and will oil-pump.

Is the piston worn across the diameter?  Most don't wear a lot but they can be out od spec for the bore.

Rods are normally marked on the cam shaft (timing) side.  This should certainly be the case if the rod and cap have been centre punched for correct refitment as all rods and caps were done this way in all engines as a standard convention.

Your dipper will be splashing excess oil all over the place.   End-on is the correct way.

Is oil leaking down the guides?  This can make blue smoke as well if it is going down the inlet valve and you keep feeding it.

Hope this gives you a few things to think about.  May have missed a few, but am sure one or two will jump in with any others, or disagreements.

Regards, RAB

[Stan]

Hi Rob...RAB is right on.....put it on a heavy load for the first few hours, make sure that dipper is knifing into the oil, not scooping it up and splashing great hunks of it on the cylinder wall. If there's no filter in the line, you should also be breaking it in with non detergent diesel oil.  That lets the crud settle in the sump.  Also put in a magnet.

Plus...did you put the rings in with the gaps staggered 1/3 ?  If the gaps are all in a row, the oil will simply run up and down the channel created.
Stan

[oliver90owner]

Rob,

Re - staggered ring gaps.  Forgot that one.  As Stan says, but also some of your compression/power stroke gases will go that way too, and if the bottom end is unable to breathe it away adequately that too might be forcing more oil past that gap or helping to over-work the oil scraper ring.

I normally check/do these things 'as a matter of course' when putting things back together and it is easy to overlook some of the obvious  possibilities for mishaps by the 'uninitiated' - when we are not quite sure of your ability/experience. 

It is like your rod issue, if you have reversed things the big end bearing, for instance, will be experiencing a different wear pattern which will not be good for it.  In all probability, it will not make any great difference, but the probability of there being extra/different wear was avoidable by re-assembing as nearly as it was previous to strip-down.  I am assuming that you did not replace the bearing during the repair.

Regards, RAB

Regards, RAB

[Lister Rob]

 Thanks for the info. i will try these pointers.The cyilinder is chrome and was wondering if these pointers didn,t work out i was going to measure the ring gap on top of the cyilinder to see if useing 10 thousand over size rings will work and how much will i have to file off the ring if the gap is 20 thousand with the regular rings.I did stager the rings but when i took it down the second time to check to see if every thing was alright the rings were all in the same row so i stagered the rings again but there is still blue smoke and there seems to be lots of  presure comeing out of the base vent. I did change the bottom rod bearing with the no. of the rod facing the oil cover and was wondering if that was okay.The engine ran great before it got hot with the rad leak so i can,t see why the regular rings won,t stop the blowby . I will keep trying and thanks again for the info and help.

 Rob.

[Lister Rob]

Thanks for the info guys, the blue smoke seems to have slowed after a hard load run in time . But now there is a lot of black smoke from the injector and was wondering if someone had a quick fix, and did anyone try a injector and piston rings of a metro clone 6-1 to replace a lister cs 6-1. I seen a silicone coated composite head gasket on ebay and can be viewed at www.gasketstogo.com and would like to know if anybody tried one to there satisfaction. Thanks Rob.

[Stan]

The Indian injectors are supposedly the same as the english ones.  I have one but haven't run it yet.  I also have the gaskets to go gasket set.  Looks good but haven't run with them yet.  Soon!
Stan

[rleonard]

I purchased a set of "Indian" injector units from Central Maine.  I put it on the injector tester that my Amish Lister expert uses.  They were perfect!  The cracking pressure was spot on, mist pattern was excellent and no weepage or drips.  I have them on the 16-2 I have just finished and it all worked out well.

Bob

[Lister Rob]

Thanks guys, i was also wondering about the age of the engine and was haveing a hard time figering it out on the info. page.  I have the CS 6-1  startomatic system  with gen. and engine. There are two serial numbers, the engine no. is 488861R7 and the gen. no. is 24332 N. The engine has two solid flywheels and was wondering if someone can tell me the year. Thanks Rob.

[Lister Rob]

Thanks guys for the info, i was going to order a indian injector and to make sure if it was the right one is the injector a (Bosh/Mico) part no.oe61017 price 58.95 and nozzle for automizer (Bosh/Mico) part no. oe61069 price 29.95. And Bobs reply you said you are useing yours on a 16-2 without any trouble but not to second guess , but did you change the setting on the injector because a 6-1  and 12-1 has 90 atmospheres and a 3-1 has 110 so the 16-1 should have less again . Just to let you know so you don,t do any damage. Thanks again and the info. will be great. Rob.

[Lister Rob]

 
Meant to say 12-2 not 12-1 , my mistake. Rob.http://

[listeroil]

Rob

Engine no 488861R7 breaks down as

4888 = engine no 4888th engine built in 1957

61 = engine type 6/1  6hp  650rpm

R = radiator cooled

7 = 1957

I have just checked the 1984 lister book 103 on types 6/1 8/1 12/2 & 16/2 
It states 90 atmospheres for the 6/1 8/1 & 16/2 injector pressure and 150 atmospheres for the 16/2 injector pressure
The timing for the 6/1 8/1 & 12/2 is 20 degrees BTDC and for the 16/2 degrees BTDC

Mick

[Lister Rob]

 Thanks for the info. Mick, good to know.