Author Topic: Heart of Coal  (Read 26042 times)

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2008, 03:44:47 AM »
 I don't know, it's been sitting around, some of it on the surface for, what, 250,000,000 years?  :-\
Stan

I guess if you left it out in the open it might get eroded away in 10,000 years or so!

rmchambers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
    • View Profile
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2008, 03:44:48 AM »
Kids and coal.

Best laid plans eh...

When my kids were smaller they were always fighting each other (still do) so to teach them a lesson I took a few pieces of coal one Christmas, washed them up and dried them so they wouldn't get too grubby and put a couple of pieces in each stocking along with a generic Santa warning letter that they should really try and get along because Santa doesn't like to see them fighting.  If the fighting keeps up, they can look forward to getting more coal and nothing else next year.

Pretty shrewd eh?   

Well, it turns out that one of the bits of coal looked somewhat like an arrowhead if you held it one way, and another bit looked like something else.. so guess what!  the little buggers were then fighting over the bits of coal.

I can't win.

RC

dieseldave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • View Profile
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2008, 04:00:28 AM »

  Ralph Klien sold us out,and now the current premier,Ed Stelmach is doing the same thing.

  We  are not getting what we should for oil royalties. Just look at Norway. $50.00 tax per barrel! And you dont see the oil companies leaving Norway!

                                                COAL! THE ALBERTA ADVANTAGE!

dmp

  • Guest
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2008, 04:22:53 AM »
Kids and coal.

Best laid plans eh...

When my kids were smaller they were always fighting each other (still do) so to teach them a lesson I took a few pieces of coal one Christmas, washed them up and dried them so they wouldn't get too grubby and put a couple of pieces in each stocking along with a generic Santa warning letter that they should really try and get along because Santa doesn't like to see them fighting.  If the fighting keeps up, they can look forward to getting more coal and nothing else next year.

Pretty shrewd eh?   

Well, it turns out that one of the bits of coal looked somewhat like an arrowhead if you held it one way, and another bit looked like something else.. so guess what!  the little buggers were then fighting over the bits of coal.

I can't win.

RC
Aaah....reminds me of a story my father told me of an American Legion convention he was @ in 1956 or so. 

He put a few pieces of coal in his suit pocket, and I think wrily, then passed them around the table & dinner.
Dazzled by their apperiance, couldn't belive we burned them for our heat and hot water.

David

dmp

  • Guest
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2008, 04:23:53 AM »
Kids and coal.

Best laid plans eh...

When my kids were smaller they were always fighting each other (still do) so to teach them a lesson I took a few pieces of coal one Christmas, washed them up and dried them so they wouldn't get too grubby and put a couple of pieces in each stocking along with a generic Santa warning letter that they should really try and get along because Santa doesn't like to see them fighting.  If the fighting keeps up, they can look forward to getting more coal and nothing else next year.

Pretty shrewd eh?   

Well, it turns out that one of the bits of coal looked somewhat like an arrowhead if you held it one way, and another bit looked like something else.. so guess what!  the little buggers were then fighting over the bits of coal.

I can't win.

RC
Aaah....reminds me of a story my father told me of an American Legion convention he was @ in 1956 or so.  

He put a few pieces of coal in his suit pocket, and I think wrily, then passed them around the table & dinner.
Dazzled by their apperiance, couldn't belive we burned them for our heat and hot water.

David

rbodell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 433
    • View Profile
    • Life after retirement
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2008, 05:43:00 AM »
Kids and coal.

Best laid plans eh...

When my kids were smaller they were always fighting each other (still do) so to teach them a lesson I took a few pieces of coal one Christmas, washed them up and dried them so they wouldn't get too grubby and put a couple of pieces in each stocking along with a generic Santa warning letter that they should really try and get along because Santa doesn't like to see them fighting.  If the fighting keeps up, they can look forward to getting more coal and nothing else next year.

Pretty shrewd eh?   

Well, it turns out that one of the bits of coal looked somewhat like an arrowhead if you held it one way, and another bit looked like something else.. so guess what!  the little buggers were then fighting over the bits of coal.

I can't win.

RC

You mean it was you and not Santa Claus?

WOW, I wonder who put the scorpion in my stocking when I was a kid.
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007

europachris

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2008, 06:10:27 PM »
then head to Schuykill Haven to pick-up the
stoker boiler.
David       

Must be a Keystoker, eh?  Which model?

Chris

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2008, 10:27:32 PM »
Jim...you're right on with your btu rating for wood pellets, 8700 btu/lb.
Stan

Jim Mc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2008, 02:33:24 AM »
thanks for the feedback, Stan.  I made a few updates -added separate bituminous and anthracite lines, and  updated the NG cost, based on my last bill.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 03:03:10 AM by Jim Mc »

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2008, 04:09:20 AM »
The only problem with your graph is that it doesn't factor in the associated costs.  Take filty nat. gas for example.  Up our way, (we're almost sitting on it)  you're fairly close to the cost of the gas, but then the utility company which is prohibited from raising the price of the gas whenever they feel like it by our socialist system, has found a way to defeat the dirty commies.  They simply add on "delivery charges", "quality of gas" charges, "minimum charge", "time of the month" charges, "I need a new swimming pool" charges (well, not quite but you get the picture).

At the end of the day, I pay almost as much for the associated costs as I do for the gas1   >:(

Stan

Jim Mc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2008, 04:26:06 AM »
Actually, the NG cost does include the associated costs.   My last bill was about $150 for 130 therms.  That $150 included "distribution and service" charges  as well as tax.  So, for me, it is about $1.15/therm.  Which makes it a pretty decent value around here. 

But, as they say, YMMV...


rpg52

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
    • View Profile
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2008, 09:22:01 PM »
All,

I'd just point out that your needs are greatly dependent on the climate you live in.  I've spent my last 55 years in California, now in the Sierra Nevada foothills.  The winter minimums are as low as 10 F (-5 C?), but the sun shines ~300 days a year.  Unfortunately, the population growth has been pretty hard on the state over my lifetime.  Fortunately, many of the newcomers live down in the LA area, and only have a remote effect on those of us living in the north.

I've had solar hot water for ~20+ years, even with a couple fridges and and freezer my elec. bill lately has been closer to $30 than to $40 USD.  Even my wood stove has a water jacket in it, when the stove gets hot enough, my water heater is pumped full of hot water.  Burn about 2 cords+ per winter (that I cut myself), have a passive solar home, with attached greenhouse. 

I filled my 280 gallon propane tank a couple years ago, still almost 1/2 full.  I have too many old vehicles, but they are all paid for, and try not to use them except when necessary.  Yeah fuel is expensive, but maybe this will finally convince us all that oil, coal, gas sources of fossil fuel were formed over 300 million years ago, are pretty rare, have a lot of pollution impacts, and we really shouldn't waste them.

Having said that, those of you living where there are coal sources nearby, the amount you burn, and the associated pollutants released are probably really irrelevant in the over all scheme of things.  The problem is all the other components of our power systems. 

If we would stop doing silly things like shipping products that are mainly water over thousands of miles so that various forms of sweetened, carbonated water is a $0.05 cheaper, (Buy it by the case at your nearest box store!)
 
The diesel (and gas) burned moving silly stuff around our country is just astounding.  (I don't mean to particularly pick on Diet Pepsi, or what ever your particular favorite is, but we really should pay for the consequences of burning fossil fuel to get cheap stuff.) 

We've had a glut of cheap stuff lately, (How much plastic crap can you afford anyway?), now we need to decide what is really important to us, and only buy that.  I personally own a Listeroid, but haven't had occasion to use it lately.  Trying to get an engine shed built for shelter, but that's another story.  Yeah, I know, lots of people are going to get hurt economically, and change is always painful.  Sorry, you all, but what can you do?

The issue really is, if we stop wasting the enormous amounts of fossil fuels, burning a bit of coal, especially in an efficient way will have a negligible effect on greenhouse gases.  The change in fossil fuel use that is emerging from the "crisis" that we are undergoing  is/will change the way our economy operates.  How it will turn out is yet to be seen. 

Not to start a fuss, but though we got adequate snow/rain fall this year, we just had the driest March and April on record, it has turned hot, dry and windy -- fires are going to be a problem this year.  IMHO, the climate is really changing fast, whether fossil fuel is the culprit, I really don't know.  I know some of you may be drowning in rain, or freezing cold, but that is one of the characteristics of climate change, it is, well, changeable.  What are the major downsides of weaning our economies from fossil fuels?  Don't know the answer, but I think we are going to find out.
 
Try to find a reason to smile today.  It's really good for you!

 :)Ray


PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2008, 10:49:50 PM »
The only problem with your graph is that it doesn't factor in the associated costs.  Take filty nat. gas for example.  Up our way, (we're almost sitting on it)  you're fairly close to the cost of the gas, but then the utility company which is prohibited from raising the price of the gas whenever they feel like it by our socialist system, has found a way to defeat the dirty commies.  They simply add on "delivery charges", "quality of gas" charges, "minimum charge", "time of the month" charges, "I need a new swimming pool" charges (well, not quite but you get the picture).

At the end of the day, I pay almost as much for the associated costs as I do for the gas1   >:(

Stan

Quiet simmering range Stanley of Stanistan.
I have never seen that Gas truck pull up to my house but I get charged for it and one black day the revolution will come.
Necks will stretch, white cotton gloves will be stain crimson and people problems will be solved with the removal of the people.
Our asses and minds will be emancipated from economic slavery and people will smile and sing in my new workers Utopia.
You will wear my blue Doug Suits and hats and praise me for my never ending revolution and the prosperity it brings.
I will smite my enemies and send them and their children to my Uranium mines in Manitoba.....

Opps gotta go time for supper and me brain pills......
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2008, 11:36:56 PM »
I think you need a couple of them brain pills tonight Doug.  ;D  Save some for me!
Stan


dmp

  • Guest
Re: Heart of Coal
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2008, 12:14:11 AM »
then head to Schuykill Haven to pick-up the
stoker boiler.
David       

Must be a Keystoker, eh?  Which model

Chris


Keystoker KAA-2.  It is a small unit with a gross output of 68,000 BTUs.  Includes a copper imersion coil for
domestic hot water.  This unit is dedicated coal.  The next sizes larger can be fired coal or oil with the optional
Beckett AFG oil burner.  Firing though is one or the other.  The coal stoker can't be firing the same time the
oil burner is, and viceversa.  It's a soild simple machine.  Quiet, realitively cheap to buy.  American made and
Made by men less than 1hr. away.  I like my money staying here, close to here, close to me.

All my fuel for heating too!

David