Author Topic: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)  (Read 26089 times)

jtodd

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Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« on: May 09, 2008, 08:22:11 AM »

I was at the Maker Faire last weekend in San Mateo, California.  One of the people exhibiting was Jim Mason, who was trying to get a Lister 6/1 running off a wood gasifier.  I didn't see if it got it up and going (had to leave early) but it's an interesting concept.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/10111/2465259587/

There have been other threads here on running Lister-style engines with wood gas.  I'm wondering if anyone has actually had one up and going on biomass gasification, rather than just investigating.  Even a ChangFa would be interesting with real-world tests.

My questions:
  - rumors are that the Listard liners in the original (real Lister) engines don't like the high-hydrogen input.  I don't recall where I heard this, so I'm working on bad memory.  Any comments?

  - what is being used as a filter for tar?

  - what kind of fuels have been attempted?

  - what type of cooling systems have been attempted?

  - what did you do to prevent runaways?

  - pictures?

JT


Doug

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Re: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2008, 02:05:27 AM »
Only Document proof of concept are the HR series run by Doug Williams in NZ

Those were in the 60s and 70s
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jimdunne

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Re: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 05:05:58 AM »
You can review books going back over a century, such as Audel's Gas Engine Manual, published in 1908, and they all state the same thing; that diesel engines will operate on gaseous, liquid, and solid fuels. "hydrocarbons are hydrocarbons"

The rest of it is just proper filtration, and/or heating, and/or treating, and/or dilution.

Yes, you probably need a certain amount of diesel for combustion (idle) fuel, and will only get a portion of full power on fuels which offer less than what fuel oil (diesel) has, but if the gas is introduced into the combustion cycle (air intake), it will replace some of the diesel fuel.

An engine which is well-governed, such a a Lister, should be near ideal for such a project. The diesel supply is left on, and the engine loaded. Gas is introduced up to the point of "problems" (such as lack of oxygen, etc) which should be around 25-30% of the fuel load, and then the gas "backed off" 5-10% or so.

At that point the engine will maintain smooth operation and at a constant RPM, if the gas supply is constant and of uniform quality.

Have done this with propane, but not wood gas or other producer gases. 

Have to think also that the 1920s CS Lister design is much closer to what those early pioneers wrote about, than a "modern" diesel engine running 20,000 psi+ injection pressures.


mobile_bob

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Re: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 03:11:44 AM »
good points there Jimdunne.. :)

i haven't tried a lister/oid yet, but have tried some alternate fuels in a 195 changfa

straight motor oil seems agreeable to the little motor
as does atf, hydraulic and clean veggie oil
it does well on propane
it does well on evaporated rubbing alcohol (probably would do as well on everclear but why waste that?)

i have no doubt it would do well on methane
and little doubt it would also do well on wood gas

i do have one of those gasifiers and if i ever get moved!!! i plan to use it to produce fuel for either the 195 or maybe
even the 25/2

whether or not it works well, i figure i want to work with it enough to make it work as well as i can
with fuel prices going through the sky it is only a matter of time before any fuel at any price will look pretty good to me.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Dave

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Re: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 03:35:43 AM »
Where did you get the gasifier?

mobile_bob

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Re: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 06:40:12 AM »
got the gasifier from  George at utterpower.com
not sure he has another or access to more of them or not.

you might try contacting him, or that guy in oregon,, (what's his name?)  oh ya
he is the guy that sells the powersolutions brand equipment, st heads, listeroid parts and other fun stuff

you might check his ebay store, i haven't checked with him lately buy he might have one laying around.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Doug

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Re: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 01:38:51 AM »
Not to be a spoiler but the Chinese Gasifires were designed to produce cooking gas not clean tar free engine gas....

As George says your milage may vary

And now some dramatic liscence on what happens to engines burning tarry producer
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo48YpNOesQ&feature=related
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

lowspeedlife

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Re: Listers or other diesels powered on wood gas (gasifiers)
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 01:32:44 AM »
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Scott R.

5.7 liter diesel k-5 blazer. converting to wvo.
omega 20/2 listeroid