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Author Topic: Blending used oils with modern diesels  (Read 23759 times)

Doug

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2008, 04:24:06 AM »
Its realy quiet now I hear the rattle of hammers and zip of welders making presure vessels tonight.......
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MacGyver

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2008, 05:59:27 PM »
Yes, a good read. Thanks Tom.

I'd sure like to find something that goes into just a bit more detail though...
I'm still trying to decide if  "Petroleum Refining in Non-Technical Language" is worth $60. It seems to have gotten kind of lukewarm reviews.
Steve

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miwyl

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2008, 11:48:54 PM »
Hi Steve (Macgyver)
Look again, the diagram 4.3 is there its on page 43 in the chapter on vacuum flashing.
also here is a link to abe.com for a used copy of that  for $38.00

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=Petroleum+refining+for+the+non-technical+person&x=54&y=9

I for one think this oil distillation is very viable route but the info on small scale operations is almost nill
should have paid more attention in chemistry class

 sometimes at night I wake up and think I hear my mig welder and plasma cutter calling to me.


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MacGyver

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2008, 03:09:10 PM »
Hi Steve (Macgyver)
Look again, the diagram 4.3 is there its on page 43 in the chapter on vacuum flashing.

Hmmm. That's interesting. If I view the link in Firefox (my default) then page 43 is *not* available to me. There's just a box that says "Pages 19-52 are not part of this book review."
 However, if I view it in IE (which I detest) then I get a different selection of viewable pages, and page 43 (and the diagram) ARE accessible.

Thanks!
Steve

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MacGyver

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2008, 11:34:01 PM »
Variable vacuum and temperature controls the weight of the final product.

Can you tell us approximately what range of temperature you typically run with your still?
And what pressure you run at?

Just looking for some ball park figures (and thinking about what materials I have on hand)  :)
Steve

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listeroidsusa1

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2008, 12:39:32 AM »
I started building my new unit this past weekend. I'm using a 100 lb propane cylinder and a grill tank for a catch tank. I ran my other one between 450 and 600 degrees depending upon how heavy a weight of oil I wanted. There is no pressure. I run all the vacuum my pump will pump. Small changes in vacuum make a big difference in the oil's boiling point. This unit has a 100 lb propane cylinder for a main dirty oil tank, a modine hot water furnace coil with a fan as a condenser, and a 20 lb grill tank for the finished oil to run into. I don't need such big tanks since the PLC will control the fluid levels, heat, vacuum, purge pressure, and the solenoid valves on the 2 tanks. I scored 500 gallons of pretty clean oil today at a local garage. The oil disposal company charges him $300 to dispose of it otherwise. I'd like to get several thousand gallons ahead for the tractor, dozers, and heat this coming winter.
WARNING
BTW, if you decide to build one of these by all means use a NEW cylinder. I had a used 100 lb cylinder that I emptied, filled with water, emptied, and held a 29" vacuum on for 3 weeks. I cut a hole in the side with a holesaw for the heating element. When I waved a propane torch over the hole to check for safety the darn thing still exploded and shot flames 50 feet into the air. It didn't damage anything but my hearing. It DID scare the hell out of me! Don't try this with used cylinders, it just isn't worth it. Besides, a new cylinder won't have the propane "stink".

MacGyver

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2008, 01:15:28 AM »
I started building my new unit this past weekend. I'm using a 100 lb propane cylinder and a grill tank for a catch tank. I ran my other one between 450 and 600 degrees depending upon how heavy a weight of oil I wanted. There is no pressure. I run all the vacuum my pump will pump. Small changes in vacuum make a big difference in the oil's boiling point.

Ahhh, thanks!
Wow. 450-600 degrees is still pretty warm. I expected that under vacuum the boiling point might be lower than that.

When I asked what pressure you ran at, I did expect the answer to be less than atmospheric....
To put the question another way...  Any idea how hard of a vacuum you get with your pump in actual use?
What type of pump do you use? Any idea what the CFM rating is?

Thanks very much for sharing your experience. It's very interesting and I think I see a small oil still in my future...  ;D
Steve

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Doug

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2008, 01:49:50 AM »
Heads up Mike your entering cracking range at the upper end of those temps. I don't know if the tars will vapourize but if they get into your fuel they will gum an glog everything
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listeroidsusa1

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2008, 08:37:23 PM »
Doug, tars and other problems have not arisen in the past 2 years I've been doing this. If the temps were 600C , yes there might be a problem but we use F, not C scales for out temperatures.

My new unit is coming along nicely. The main tank is finished and I'm working on the catch tanks and base. My digital temperature controller has arrived so I'm ready to start construction of my control panel. My unit is a 2 fraction unit. It'll catch regular oils at the tank midpoint and the lighter vapors will be condensed from the outlet at the top of the tank. I cut the 100 lb propane tank in half on my bandsaw and fabricated a bubbler tray at the midpoint. The downcomers on the tray allow 4.2 gallons to be processed at a cycle. Since a 20 lb grill tank holds a little more than 4.5 gallons it was the determining factor in the design capacity. Float switches will signal the plc as to when a catch tank purge is necessary. At that point the still's drawdown valve is closed and air pressure is applied to blow the contents through a check valve to a 500 gallon holding tank. It will have 4 tanks outside, a main input dirty oil tank, a lube oil tank, light fraction tank, and a bottoms tank.

My unit is a bit smaller and runs at a higher temperature but here is a link to a commercial unit using the same principles, just on a larger scale.

http://wastechengineering.com/products/vacuum_distillation_systems.html?OVRAW=Distillation&OVKEY=distillation&OVMTC=standard&OVADID=3947003511&OVKWID=8719851011

listeroidsusa1

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2008, 01:42:13 AM »
I took some photos as I was building the main tank. I'll probably post them on photobucket when I get them downloaded. My saw is a 1917 model Marvel roll in saw. Although it is old it is also the straightest cutting saw I've ever used. I routinely cut my pulley blanks with it and in most cases a .010 pass on the lathe cleans them up and removes all of the saw marks. Although old, it is a fantastic running machine. It'll cut a 20" x 20" block and a 100 lb propane cylinder is only 15" diameter. I've only used one bi-metal blade in 2 years and that blade has cut literally thousands of parts while holding close tolerances. I finally killed that blade attempting to cut a customer's part. It turned out to be a high chrome induction hardened shaft that even a file or carbide wouldn't touch. So much for a $80 blade.......

listeroidsusa1

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2008, 04:10:04 AM »
Apparently I'm not the only one doing this. Check out the report from the Department of Energy way back in 1983.

http://www.p2pays.org/ref%5C05/04815.pdf

Bottleveg

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2010, 11:43:38 PM »
Hello from the UK.
Fascinating topic. I know itís nearly two years old now but I hope you are still doing it?
I have read the posts and links several times and still trying to put it all together in my head. Some things Iím not sure about.
As the oil is under vacuum, what is the actual temperature the oil is heated to? Presumably 600f would be the start of actual atmospheric boiling point.
The bubble caps; are they crown bottle caps or screw caps and what stops them falling off when all is assembled and vacuum is activated? Is the gas bottle welded closed after the trays are fitted?
Any photos and what is a grill tank and a PLC?

Many thanks in advance, Mark

Bottleveg

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2010, 01:18:33 PM »
Hello from the UK.
Fascinating topic. I know itís nearly two years old now but I hope you are still doing it?
I have read the posts and links several times and still trying to put it all together in my head. Some things Iím not sure about.
As the oil is under vacuum, what is the actual temperature the oil is heated to? Presumably 600f would be the start of actual atmospheric boiling point.
The bubble caps; are they crown bottle caps or screw caps and what stops them falling off when all is assembled and vacuum is activated? Is the gas bottle welded closed after the trays are fitted?
Any photos and what is a grill tank and a PLC?

Many thanks in advance, Mark


Ah, a grill tank is often called a calor gas tank in the UK. Small refillable liquid gas tank used for camping stoves and barbeques. Only 4.5kg over here, are the US ones larger?

mike90045

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2010, 10:30:35 PM »
Quote
Ah, a grill tank is often called a calor gas tank in the UK. Small refillable liquid gas tank used for camping stoves and barbeques. Only 4.5kg over here, are the US ones larger?



Small BBQ Grill & tank.  Tank is about 4 US gallons of propane, not sure of the weight of fuel.

Bottleveg

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Re: Blending used oils with modern diesels
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2010, 12:25:27 PM »
Quote
Ah, a grill tank is often called a calor gas tank in the UK. Small refillable liquid gas tank used for camping stoves and barbeques. Only 4.5kg over here, are the US ones larger?



Small BBQ Grill & tank.  Tank is about 4 US gallons of propane, not sure of the weight of fuel.

Thanks for posting that Mike. It looks about the same size as the smallest UK tank (4.5kg-10lbs) but listeroidsusa1 mentions a 20lbs catch tank so that would be a 9kg. The next size up for us is the 13kg.
Hopefully listeroidsusa1 will come back with the fine detail.