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Author Topic: Welding for a dummy  (Read 16601 times)

t19

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2008, 04:13:37 PM »
WOW thanks guys

So whats the difference between a Mig Welder and an Arch Welder?
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t19

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2008, 04:20:25 PM »
I have also found some Gas engine welders, ones a Lincoln with an onan engine the other is a Comox with a 12hp kohler engine... both engines need carb work but everything works, and they are 220 volt.. would that be a better unit for $300?  (both are gas too)
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gpkull

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2008, 04:54:12 PM »
mig uses a wire vs a rod. mig is the best for sheet metal. it must be clean, no paint rust or grease. less heat means less warp. i use mig for just about everytihing except thick steel . the arc welder gives better penatration on thick stuff

t19

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2008, 04:55:42 PM »
Thanks, so really for the stuff I will be doing teh Arch welders are overkill and too much.  thanks again
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xyzer

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2008, 05:04:06 PM »
Note:....You don't want to use a MIG outside on a windy day....Use a core wire or stick....After years of beating my brains out on a BUZZ box I got a Miller 210 with spoolgun and a Syncrowave 200 stick/tig....I've died and gone to heaven...of course the price of steel went up after that!
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ronmar

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2008, 05:50:18 PM »
MIG uses fine wire, and you control the current delivered by the feed speed of the wire.  When using shield gas, the gas shield  must be maintained to completely exclude O2 untill the metal re-solidifies, so you need to be out of the wind if you are working outside.

Shield gas delivers a finished clean weld with less spatter.  Flux core is a bit more convenient(no bottle and plumbing), but because the flux is in the core of the wire, the wire is a larger diameter, so it delivers too much current for thinner sheet metal.  It, like stick welding leaves a slag layer on top of the weld as part of the shield process which must be cleaned up.  MIG slag is far less thick and durable than that left by stick welding.  I use a toothbrush size wire brush and whire wheels/baskets on a die grinder for quick and easy cleanup of welds.  I rarely do thin stuff and things over 1/4", so I predomanantly use flux core MIG, and it is way easier to clean than stick which typically requires a chipping hammer to dislodge.

The flux in the wire core melts/vaporizes and expands outward pushing the air away from the molten pool to keep the molten metal from absorbing O2 and oxidizing.  Because of this it is a little less succeptable to wind interference in the shielding process.  This vaporizing of the core causes more spatter, little drops of molten metal, that will adhere/partially melt into the surrounding surfaces they land on.  I typically use a file layed flat on the surface and drawn/scraped along the surface to dislodge those easilly.  Using shielding gas removes most of these two cleanup steps as it has far less spatter.  Watch what you are welding around, I once watched a guy destroy a windshield welding in new engine mounts in an engine compartment.  The weld spatter melted into the windshield glass...

As Bob mentioned, use good quality wire.  I have had pretty good luck with Lincoln wire and it is readilly available at most of the box stores nowdays(I get mine at Home Depot).

Good Luck

Ron     
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t19

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2008, 06:02:47 PM »
Something tells me I may need to take a night school course :p

So for really nice work, get gas... but Im just putting in some floor panels, not to be seen once I am done and painted over.

but, my other work will need to be seen.. so I really should be looking for one of the units that does both
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mobile_bob

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2008, 06:40:20 PM »
if you need to weld out doors
use straight co2, and an e6 wire
and turn the gas flow rate up,, co2 is fairly cheap

all you need is some form of windbreak to keep down wind at the weld zone
the use of co2 which is heavier and denser than the mixed gases will do a very good job
with a bit more spatter.. i have welded outside without much issue useing little more than a piece of plywood
to shield the drafts.

there is a place for flux cored wires, but in reality i have found that working around the limitations of drafts
and using gas shielding to be well worth the effort.

it isn't often you will need to weld in a hurricane :)

my point is, get a machine that uses gas,, it can be used without with flux core
but the cheaper flux core machines don't always come capable of adding gas later
and when they are it isn't a cheap upgrade.

on thin sheet metal, there is no way i would even mess with flux core wire
just too much of a pain to prep and chip,, using .023 wire and gas makes sheet metal work
very easy , nice and clean.

bob g
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Quinnf

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2008, 07:59:10 PM »
I bought a cheap flux-core 110V welder at Ho Depo years ago to do a couple of wrought iron gates.  I figured the welder would pay for itself about half way through the first one since the quote from the fabricator I got was $500 for each gate.  So I built a jig, cut and fit all the square tubing in it and started welding.  Geez, what a lot of smoke that flux made.  Can't be good to breathe, either.  And spatter and holes and voids in the welds.  I finished the job and it was fine after a lot of cleaning and grinding and even a little Bondo and paint.

Then I got the MIG conversioin kit for that welder, reversed the polarity, installed the new gun, attached the argon/CO2 bottle and never looked back.  Nice clean stack of coins welds, no spatter, no smoke.  Only downside is forgetting to turn off the gas valve before putting it away.  But I think that's age-related.  Sort of like walking around at work all day until someone tells you your fly's open.

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Stan

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2008, 09:40:24 PM »
You ought to try standing up in front of a series of classes all morning and no one tells you your fly is open  ???
Stan

t19

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2008, 10:18:40 PM »
was that because of shock and awe??
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sid

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2008, 10:26:34 PM »
welding// everyone has their favorite//try to find a friend that welds and help him //ask questions.. shop around and then go to a trade school and learn the proper way/most trade schools have evening classes/and in some place it is free or almost free/a little of correct imformation is worth a lot more than a lot of I have done this for years and it works for me type info..welding is an acquired skill/ and to be good you must pratice, pratice//like playing a violen. the more you play it the better you are//I have welded for years with many different types and with the proper grinder it looks very good///sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
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4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
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Stan

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2008, 01:20:19 AM »
I think more like FEAR Andrew.
Stan

MeanListerGreen

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2008, 05:52:12 AM »
You may want to take a look at the Lincoln web site.  They have alot of basic information there.  You definately don't need to shell out money to take a night course to learn to mig weld.  It's funny, where I work we have had a mass retirement in the last 3-4 years and nearly all the experienced welders are gone.  The company was unwilling to pay a wage that would attract an experienced welder so they took fork truck drivers, assemblers, burger flippers, supermarket stock boys...etc and send them to thei company's 2 week welding course then call them certified welders.  Talk about scary.  I have to admit I have been amazed at how fast some of these guys caught on.  On the flip side some should be fired but the company is in such dire need for welders they won't let them go. 

I have several welders, every thing from a Hobart 135 to a Lincoln, 3 phase, 480 volt, 5/32 dual shiield and the one I tend to use the most is the Hobart 135.  It's just too handy and for the most part I can use it on most stuff.  I can vertical up a bead for good penetration.  If you have the cash to get the gas powered welder , you may want to grab it too.  If you get the hang of welding those mobile gas powered welders are worth their weight in gold out in the field.  I have a Lincoln 225 Weld n Power and it really comes in handy if I have to do a job in the field, plus I can use it to power my Hobart 135 out in the field as well should I need wire there.

Good Luck
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sid

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Re: Welding for a dummy
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2008, 12:50:53 PM »
unless you have welded before// all those # mean nothing to a person///Take a free or cheap night course and you can pratice on some ones else rods and gas and learn how to idenify different metal and rods// it is esy to talk welding but if you have never pick up  a rod.. they do not know what you are talking about...even the fork lift drivers had some one to help at first//if they are of the quaity of our drivers.. they would not be qualified to make a sandwich.we have to start a new fork lift driver class every 2 weeks//sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc