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Author Topic: Injection pump and priming question  (Read 25061 times)

Stan

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2008, 04:26:03 AM »
Sara....There has been some discussion on the forum of running a small propane flame into the intake manifold (without any sort of filter on it) while cranking it over.  On a 12/2 it might take another set of hands to do but the heated air entering the combustion chamber seems to do the trick.  I've never tried it but it has been suggested before.
sTan

It's a lot simpler and quicker than machining glowplugs in and you don't have to provide power to a small propane torch. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 04:27:37 AM by Stan »

biobill

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2008, 04:39:45 AM »
Ditto what Stan said. You're probably dying to hear the thing run. I've never tried the torch in the intake but I have heated up the head, high pressure line, and injector with a torch when some knuckle head(me) killed the battery for the glowplug. Get it warm and it'll run.
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Doug

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2008, 06:23:44 PM »
Sara:

This is a proto type part that never went any place.
It uses a Duetz glow plug in my own custom built intake.

http://www.putfile.com/pic/4924461

If that doesn't provide enough heat to start a cold engine then a shot of WD40 or something similar while cranking with it on will ignite in the intake and the fire ball will be drawn into the engine.
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

Stan

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2008, 06:44:35 PM »
Sounds like a plan Doug, but Sara  DON'T EVER USE ETHER in a diesel engine.  Bad Dobby!
Stan

lendusaquid

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2008, 08:44:33 PM »
I have used a hot air paint stripper down the air intake manifold before and it worked. Bit of heat on the hp line as well would help.

sarawnw

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2008, 06:08:30 PM »
Hi All,

It's been very cold here the last few days and I have been taken away from pleasure by the life's demands.  Maybe this weekend I can get back to it 
The glow plug on the intake is a great idea and will end up happening.  Having 12volts with unlimited current source is as near as the closest car.  Some times a car is hard to get into places if you have not designed for it I guess.  In the meantime, the propane torch sounds like the way to go. My brother agreed to come over and hold the torch and run the exhaust release.   

I have tried using the hair dryer in the air intake with exhaust and intake valves open to warn the head and cylinder.  It takes several hours to get the top of the head to feel warmer than the fly wheel.  That's warmer than 15F which should be relatively easy to do, unless I have some thing wrong in my reasoning.  Thermal conductivity in iron is pretty high and very apparent in cold weather.  The hot air paint stripper may be more fruitful.   

I have read about the ether and diesel engines being non ideal partners but what about WD-40, that is ok in moderation?

Thanks for your help from all and I'll advise you of the status this weekend


sara

Stan

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2008, 07:04:22 PM »
Hi Sara.....I don't know about WD - 40, never touch the stuff.  I'm always leery of spraying anything into an internal combustion engine that has a higher burn rate than what's supposed to be sprayed in there.

There is another danger to watch out for though!  My daughter is a registered nurse and worked for 4 years in the Vancouver General Hospital Burn unit.  She saw many bad burns (I even saw one when visiting my aged mother there, yuch!) caused by spray can voletiles igniting when they shouldn't have.

True, usually they occured right after that famous line "hey, hold my beer and watch this" but anything sprayed fine enough has the potential to backfire and burn all the skin off your face.  Not a pretty thought, and not a pretty sight either.  (they don't cover it up nowadays and when you meet one of them wandering the halls it's enough to giver you nightmares for weeks).

Stan

lendusaquid

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2008, 07:25:25 PM »
Must admit ive done the hairspray and lighter thing in the way distant past ::). When starting my engine with the help of the paint stripper i didn't wait until the head was warm. I just left it running in place while i started the engine and removed it once it was running.
And Sara, don't forget that once your engine is running  the most important thing to do next is make Tea with the power.

Stan

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2008, 07:39:10 PM »
That reminds me of the story of the guy who went out and bought $10,000 worth of the most up to date digital camera and lenses, took a trip to Africa with the sole idea of taking the most perfect picture ever taken, came back and bought a $7,000 computer with every feature known to man to process his photo.  Spent weeks digitally processing his images, picked the best one of the thousands he took, and made a screen saver out of it.  :-[
Stan

lendusaquid

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 07:55:37 PM »
Iam English, you just don't understand how important Tea is.

Stan

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2008, 08:08:48 PM »
Oy...1973, On a day tour from London to see Stonehenge, we stopped off at an Inn (I think it was called the white horse inn or something like that), they didn't have coffee, I actually drank a cup of tea!
Stan

Didn't see any Listers that I remember.

lendusaquid

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2008, 08:28:35 PM »
I tried coffee once. I put some coffee beans in a teapot, poured boiling water on them and waited for them to brew. I think i got it wrong somewhere because nothing happened so i went back to drinking tea. :)

Doug

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2008, 10:14:52 PM »
Coffee from Tim's on the ride into the mine....

Tea with lunch....

Expreso at tea time or more tea depending on the mood and urgency of any later work
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

Stan

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2008, 01:18:01 AM »
Sorry Jens, I thought it was alright to tell everyone about your other hobby  ;D
Stan

hotater

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Re: Injection pump and priming question
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2008, 04:51:44 AM »
Patience Sara...one more photo story, first---

I worked for a lawyer last year that is REALLY into digital photography.  The Court Reporter ask him during a break when he was showing his Ft. Churchill Polar bear pictures if he considered himself a 'professional photographer'.  He said,  "No, a professional photographer can't afford my equipment."

Sara--

I feel for you cranking a twin in cold weather.  The problem is that you're not sure its 'right' to begin with and the cold adds a lot of uncertainty to it.  Cold affects parts, fuel, viscosities, and patience in about equal amounts.

You say you get white puffs but no ignition?  How many puffs before the cardio alarms ring?  If you say more than two you either have low compression or you're Paul Bunyon's lost child.   ;)

If you have change-over valves, make sure they're on high compression and TIGHT there.

There's two ways of making it light.....warm it up by glow plug or hot intake temperatures,  or reduce the temperature needed to light the fuel by an 'augmented fuel' in the the form of ether or WD-40 or LPS or CRP. 

Ether was my preferred choice, but I never had to deal with much below 30 degrees because I had natural heat in the engine shed.

To use ether in a SINGLE (I've never seen a twin), I sprayed as little as I could from about 18 inches away at the air intake cleaner.  I did NOT use it straight down the throat.   I always cranked until I got three creaks of the injector and then pulled the valve lifter.
  I figured it this way:  By prewetting the cylinder and going through three intakes of 'ether-air' before having compression to fire assured the best mixture of the fuel and ether and precluded a 'slug' of ether in a dry cylinder.

It took having a head gasket blow out pretty much directly in my left ear on the first firing stroke that convinced me 'too much' is not a good thing.    :o
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