Author Topic: alcohol  (Read 8401 times)

captfred

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alcohol
« on: February 04, 2008, 01:50:34 AM »
Beginning to put together the components for a couple Charles 803 stills to produce E85 fuel.

Anyone distilling alcohol for fuel?  Any thoughts, success or failures?

Cheers, Fred




dkwflight

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 02:17:37 AM »
Hi The concensus seems to be not for a diesel without a lot of lube.
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

captfred

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2008, 03:36:45 AM »
Planning on using most of this for gas powered car and a small amount to be blended with my wvo for the roid. Fred


dkwflight

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2008, 10:45:46 PM »
Hi It will probably work out OK. You won't know til you do it.
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

biobill

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2008, 01:53:58 AM »
What are you going to ferment? Is that sugar cane country? How long does it have to ferment for?   Tried the links from the other thread and I get a DSL look up error - whatever that is.

edit: not DSL, it's DNS.   What's it mean?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 01:21:23 PM by biobill »
Off grid since 1990
6/1 Metro DI living in basement, cogen
6/1 Metro IDI running barn & biodiesel processer
VW 1.6 diesels all over the place
Isuzu Boxtruck, Ford Backhoe, all running on biodiesel
Needs diesel lawnmower & chainsaw

captfred

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2008, 06:04:34 AM »
During the Japanese administration these islands were all sugarcane and "really crappy" coffee for the main islands market.

Looking at trying some sugarcane but for volume mostly starches - breadfruit and tapioca (chinese production is mostly tapioca so this model should work)

sorry about the links try googling "charles 803" for the still information and "mile hi distilling" for the parts etc.

Anyway Don't really know if it will be viable - but a fun project none the less.  Fred

atimperson

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2008, 04:27:51 PM »
Fred

You don't really need a stainless or copper still unless you are going to drink it. Plain steel will work for fuel.  Also you will get more alcohol from the sugarcane.

Tim


rmchambers

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2008, 07:55:07 PM »
Yeah but copper is nicer looking, and you never know when you might get a cut and need some "medicinal" ethanol to help heal.

captfred

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2008, 08:53:19 PM »
we were given the 3 inch, 2 inch copper pipe for free with along with various fittings, also for free.  Picked up  3in to 2 in reducers on island for 16 bucks ea.  The most expensive part will be the temperature regulating valve.

Sugercane would be awesome, no doubt it would provide best yield, but not much grown on island anymore; the tubers are underutilized and readily available.

Have also read of using alcohol in blending wvo (Shur-Mischung) helps boost cetane - something else to play with.

If it doesn't pan out, I'll set it up in the entry as a bitchin' copper hat rack :D  Fred

wrightkiller

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2008, 09:49:03 PM »
Captfred :  please don't forget the pictures  ;D ;D

Doug

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2008, 12:28:26 AM »
My grandfather used a rad from a modle T as a condenser for his still...
Lead wasn't a consideration
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assiduous1

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2008, 09:07:35 PM »
Hello all,
 
  I was searching the database for alcohol and ran across the Capt'n inquiry on alcohol.  This is kind of an old thread and I hope there's no objection to my resurrecting it.  I think this is/should be, a very important topic for most of us.  Why? You ask.

A few months ago I went to a lecture by David Blume on making alcohol.  I originally went because I had thought the lecture was on biodiesel, which he did discuss to some extent.  His book "Alcohol Can Be A Gas" at www.permaculture.com is a must read for the Capt'n and anyone else wanting to check out alcohol.  I have nothing to do with this book or David Blume.  I only met him once.  But between his lecture and the book, it's made a believer out of me.  Here are a few things that might spark your interest.

Alcohol will run great in a diesel, although not at 100%.  Alcohol will not mix with petroleum diesel by itself.  You can mix 50% alcohol, 25% biodiesel (which does mix with alcohol) and 25% petroleum diesel together.  They mix well and it runs clean.
This runs on Diesel farm equipment, but shouldn't be a problem in a listeroid either.

Many complain that ethanol drives up the price of food.  Most of the Alcohol made in the states is from corn.  Although it works well, an acre of corn only provides ~250 gallons of alcohol.  Try sorghum at 800-1000 gallons per acre or sugar beets at ~900.  Capt'n are you listening.  Here's why you want to use sugar-based items like sugar cane and sugar beets instead of starchy items.  You don't have to cook them.  Starches have to be boiled for ~30-60 min.  Saves you lots of BTU's compared to cooking starches like corn.

How many "till up the dirt" Farmers do we have at this forum?  These are the people that could use alcohol the most.  They’re the ones with the land, equipment and time to grow and process the crops;  Guy's like the Capt'n who might have some of the sugar crops and waste fruit lying around.  For the rest of us...  Just about any waste product with sugar or starches in them will work.  Stale bread, old candy (any candy factory by you?), waste soda, bad doughnuts.  You get the picture.  You do have to cook starches though.  It's an additional step in the process and uses additional BTU's.

Alcohol works in gas and diesel engines, burns clean, stores great, has a high octane rating and can be made darn cheap, about $1.40 gal if you buy corn and use propane.  If you have access to sugar/starches it can be made even cheaper. 
You have to register with the Fed's to get a permit (it's free).  A small distillers permit will allow someone to make 3000 gallons a year on a still.  If everyone on this forum also had a permit, they could make 3000 gallons each per year (time permitting) on the same still.  That’s a bit impractical for this forum but would work quite nicely in your local area with a few friends. That's where David say's we need to be making the fuel anyway, locally. 

There's a lot more but I don't want to put anyone to sleep  ::) 





captfred

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2008, 11:10:54 AM »
The main problem we've run into is cheap heat - don't want to buy propane, or diesel for the mbu stoves, or gasoline for Alaska tent stoves - modifications are in the works for running the mbu stoves or alaska tent stoves on wvo - but that's down the road.

Tried fruits (mangos) - too much work - growing some sugercane to see how that works out - tubers (tapioca) seem to be the easiest to grow - just takes more (hopefully almost free) btu's.  Tapioca is the crop of choice in china for ethanol production

Fun project, but a long way to go.

Fred


Piston Bob

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 06:56:46 PM »
From what I have read, as long it is not used for consumption, you can use anything for distillation.

You only need about 80-90 deg C, if you were to try to extract as much of the ethanol from the mash you will need to run it up into the low 90’s.

With these temperatures you could use the cooling tank or radiator of your engine as a heat source. You can make a heating coil to put the apparatus on to heat, or a double boiler set-up.

Keep us posted with your results.

PB