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Author Topic: WMO load test  (Read 35486 times)

mobile_bob

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 06:13:00 AM »
been gone for the last week and found this an interesting thread :)

it stands to reason that one should be able to get more power out of waste motor oil than diesel
all things being equal (lb for lb)
diesel has around 135kbtu and motor oil around 200k btu

now in order for the 195 to make more power burning the waste motor oil it has to burn the same weight of oil as diesel
i don't have a problem with that.

what i am wondering is, what is the limiting factor on the 195's hp rating?
i suspect it is the cooling system, being hopper cooled it can only produce so much hp before it boils too hard
and consumes a lot more water,, afterall there are two ratings on the engines ~8.8 continuous and a one hour rating of ~9.8kwatt

the 195 having a pressure fed bottom end it would appear that the bottom end is not the limiting factor,
so my thinking is the limiting factor is the cooling system

delete the water tank and install a blockoff plate, tstat and pump and my bet is the little engine is good for a fair bit more than
the 8.8 kwatt continuous,, maybe it will do 10 or 12 kwatt continous.

the old 71 and 92 series detroits could be made to make a bunch more power if you could provide enough cooling
i have seen them on fracturing pumps producing twice their common hp ratings but
the radiators and fans were very large.. so it is apparent that they were not bottom end limited but rather cooling system limited when it
came to hp production,, likey this is the case for all most all diesels.

i would be interested in seeing some solid testing of the 195 so as to document it peak power production, with good cooling, a good
intake and exhaust system, and maybe some tweaking to the injectors an timing.

might be interesting?

:)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

draganof

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 02:36:06 AM »
Here is my latest test using 50% Diesel and 50% DELO 40w.  I was actually able to pull 10kw but couldn't control the water temp. I'm using a 3208 radiator with and electric fan. The radiator has 1.5" hose on the outlet and 1.250 on the inlet. The air intake starts out at 2.0" and grows to 5" at the air cleaner ( two 3126 in series). The exhaust starts out at 2.0" dumps into a 6" inlet and 6" outlet Nelson Residential Muffler ( 5' x 18") with 30' of 6" stack. There was plenty of rack left but at 12kw it smoked like a coal fired boiler in Steel town and the radiator was ejecting coolant like a fire hose. It would be interesting to add a water pump and turbocharger to see what it would pull. I have a feeling it would do 15-20kw. I'm wondering if the head gasket could stand the pressure. Oh that was with 2000 rpm on the engine and 1800 rpm at the head. I am currently running the engine at 1625 rpm and 1800 rpm at the head. This gives me a maximum of 6kw with lots of smoke but it is so quiet at this speed the sacrifice is worth it for now. The pulleys are 3 sheave using B series belts. Maybe come summer I'll dig up a water pump and install a turbo.

John
Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

draganof

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2008, 12:19:35 AM »
A short update on running a 195 at 1625 rpm. I ran it 5 hours last night at 5kw and all seemed fine when I shut it down. This afternoon I did the normal check the oil and coolant start it up for a short warm up and then 2.5kw for 30 minutes and then 5kw. Well I ran it for 2 hours and then shut it down for the evening and noticed a small puddle of oil under the dipstick. Oil level is good but I seem to have some higher than usual blow by. I think I have a carbon build up issue at the reduced rpm. I'll change the oil tomorrow and change the pulleys back and run the engine at 2000 rpm and see if the crankcase pressure goes down. I have a feeling it will. This is not a slow speed engine and here I am trying to make it one.

John
Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

mobile_bob

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2008, 02:34:36 AM »
when are you going to add the first stage of nitrous? :)

i suspect the little engine will do much better with a water pump, lets face it even a cat will
blow water if you take the water pump out of play, hard to thermosyphon when you are pulling this level of power
out of it.

me, i would be thrilled to get the 8.8 kwatt rating (mechanical) output as electrical, and i think the engine can do it
with a water pump and radiator without issues.

interesting tests, at some point though i would expect some sort or mechanical issue
hopefully not cast iron hemmorage :(

i also wonder about a controlled breakin procedure, closely monitoring the crankcase pressure
you are certainly familiar with that process,, load it till the crankcase pressure starts to rise, reduce load and run for a determined
amount of time, increase loading again and watch for pressure rise,, etc  until you get to peak loading without an undue rise in crankcase pressure.
blah blah blah
this is probably very important on an engine one is trying to get max output out of and get it to live as well.

pretty cool!
bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

draganof

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2008, 03:13:22 AM »
Funny you should mention Nitrous. I have two 40lb bottles here in the garage along with Helium, Hydrogen and various other oxidizers and rocket fuels. My two sons are at the U/W. The oldest one is an Aeronautical/Astronautical Engineer/Physicist and the youngest is a Physicist. A family of rocket scientists we is. They keep asking me when I'm going to plumb in the Nitrous! I guess if I ever want to launch the Changfa it would be rather easy. ::)

John
Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

mobile_bob

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 04:53:39 AM »
one of the coolest things i ever saw in regard to nitrous and a diesel engine
was at seattle international raceway about 5 or 6 years ago

a couple of old dudes brought a single axle Kenworth with a twin turbo 8v71 detroit with an mt40 allison 5 speed with two 120lb
nitrous bottles.

super single rear tires capped as slicks

ran low 11's in the quarter in exhibition

pretty cool, not a top fuel dragster, but it got all us diesel mechanics up off the bleachers :)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

draganof

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2008, 06:54:11 PM »
Well learned a bit of a lesson today. Winter time, not pre-heating the WMO and 1625 rpm builds lots of carbon! Went down to the local Chevron and bought 5 gallons of clear highway diesel of high quality ( yeah right) filled up the tank and put a 5kw load on the engine. After 45 minutes the exhaust burns clean again and the base pressure has returned to normal. I am going to run on straight diesel only for now at the 1625 rpm. As much as I don't want to I may have to heat the fuel lines to run WMO if I want to stay at the slower engine speed. If that doesn't work then I'll go back to the rated 2000 rpm engine speed until summer. Right now I'm using this to heat my garage with a 5kw 240 volt heater.

John
Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

rl71459

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2008, 07:37:29 PM »
OK... What is a "Nelson Residential Muffler" Will it help me quiet my C-201 Isuzu Genset?

draganof

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2008, 03:19:16 AM »
OK... What is a "Nelson Residential Muffler" Will it help me quiet my C-201 Isuzu Genset?

here is the link for Nelson Mufflers         http://www.nelsonexhaust.com.au/

it's basically a super quiet muffler made for residential generators

go to the exhaust-a-logue and you can download a pdf catalog. there are disrtributors here in the US

The one I have was special ordered for a customer about 5 years ago and not used after the customer canceled the job. It sat in a warehouse until last summer when it was sent to the scrap metal dumpster. I watched them carrying it over to the dumpster on a forklift and asked them to put it on the trailer behind my service truck instead. They didn't understand why I wanted such a big muffler.  heh heh


John
Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

rl71459

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2008, 03:39:16 AM »
Thank You John

I'll check it out... Never heard of them before.

Rob

draganof

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2008, 04:02:34 AM »
I do know their mufflers are very expensive but I have never seen one rust out. I know plenty that have outlasted the engine they were installed on. Mine is regular steel but I have seen some polished stainless ones that had a mirror finish. They currently reside in a rather large mansion in Medina, Washington. The engine also has polished nickel valve covers, polished brass water lines etc. It is truly a wonder to be seen. But sadly the owner won't allow photos of any kind. The generator cost more than my entire house and property! 

John
Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

rl71459

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2008, 01:07:34 PM »
Some of them are REALLLLY HUUUGE!.... Must be super quiet I'll bet.

Rob

draganof

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2008, 12:45:36 AM »
Mine has a quiet rumble that sounds like an engine running far off in the distance. Of course the stack points straight up and tops out at 30'  Even before I put the stack on you could stand right next to it and hear the generator growling more than the exhaust. It's quiet.

John
Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

rbodell

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2008, 05:30:55 AM »
Mine has a quiet rumble that sounds like an engine running far off in the distance. Of course the stack points straight up and tops out at 30'  Even before I put the stack on you could stand right next to it and hear the generator growling more than the exhaust. It's quiet.

John

Yeah mine is like that. You can stand beside it and talk in a normal voice. The noise is the valves and alternator. Nice chug from the exhaust but you have tio get within a couple of feet to hear the exhaust.
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007

rbodell

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Re: WMO load test
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2008, 02:58:28 PM »
Are these 'roids or the real thing ? .... I have eliminated the exhaust noise on my 'roid but it's still very noisy with a heavy diesel knock, some minor valoe train noise and a good whine from the generator head. I can't hear the engine if I am behind the house but the concept of running this setup at night is definitively a no-go. Constant running during the day would also get me in trouble with the neighbors.

Jens

Mine is a roid, but I doubt it makes any difference. I thiunk the expansion chamber makes a lot of difference. Also the expansion chamber being deadened by the dirt works pretty good too. Actual engine noise like the valves and alternator would probably take an engine cover of some sort or maybe some bushes between you and the neighbors.
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007