Author Topic: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?  (Read 24737 times)

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« on: November 26, 2007, 06:56:00 PM »
  I just seen a 6HP or so original British built Petter AV1 with the Krislar name in the castings? It's complete, not bashed up and runs smooth under load without smoke. It was supposed to have been one of the last three new petters shipped into Ontario from England, so the story goes. It's been running a milking machine since the 1970's. Being upgraded by a Yanmar to run a larger milking machine and cooler with the convenience of electric start.  $250.00 cash.
  A Krislar Petter?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 07:16:52 PM by buickanddeere »

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2007, 08:39:36 PM »
Sounds like you have found a Kirloskar Petteroid.

The AV series Petter was manufactured under liscence from Petters Ltd in India by KOEL ( Kirloskar Oil Engines Limited ).

If it is an AV1 its probably a very close copy of the original

This is a link to an old Ebay auction of a TV1 and marks the beginning of the Petteroids as I understand.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180149370884
The DM 10 like my Petteroid seems to mark the end of the evolution of the type ( with a lot of borrowed ideas from the PJ¬  and PHW engines that were never manufactured under liscence from Petter ).

The AV1 is considered an obscolete type by Lister Petter who proivide no parts of technical suport in Canada for it. However the Indians and KOEL in particualr still build it and parts are available.

Doug

Can you get pictures?

I don't understand how it came from England in the 70's with a Petter connection if it was made in India maybe Peter can provide some insight.

In the 70's KOEL seems to have introduced at least one engine into the North American market, the KA-27. They had a distributor but for what ever reason they didn't make any head way ( engines were probably not up to par ).

Peter also spoke in a posting about an Indian engine builder trying to sell engines in England based in Lister/Petter engines in the 70s ( and laughed out of trade shows ). This may explain how a KOEL engine ( if that is what this is ) came to Canada from England
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 10:07:16 PM by Doug »
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

listerdiesel

  • Guest
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2007, 11:51:53 PM »
To answer Doug's question re the appearance of a Kirloskar engine in North America, I think that as soon as Petters/Hawker-Siddeley Group finished with Kirloskar, there would have been a fairly quick uptake on Kirloskar's part to see what marketing they could generate to sell engines. They were fairly switched on due to their involvement with Petters, and may well have had contacts with North American companies already through Petters etc.

A lot of engines from various European makers, including Diter in Spain, made their way over in small batches as part of various experimental deals.

There is a Petter DA engine with a guy who we know, Petter never sold any but he has one.

Peter

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 12:17:08 AM »

There is a Petter DA engine with a guy who we know, Petter never sold any but he has one.

Peter


Now that sounds interesting what is a DA Petter?
Looking at your data sheets I only see reference to a DA2 with a build date of 68-69.
How does an engine that Petter never sold end up with a 1 year build run date?
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
error, sorry It's a PH1W kriislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 08:29:03 PM »
  Sorry folks  :-[ novice on the loose.
  After taking a look at the old engines info site. It's obvious I know some about two cylinder Deere's but only enough to be dangerous around Petters. This  Krislar looks like a water cooled 87.3 X 110  PH1W Petter. No rad or fan, it just thermosyphoned on a water tank.
 

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2007, 06:39:44 AM »
No matter, but I think in that case its actualy a PH1W ( W for water cooled ).

Did you buy it?

If not I would like it.

Check the injection pump. I think it should be a Bryce if its a real Petter. That should help clear up what it is.

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 03:54:38 AM »
  Bought her today, pick it up tomorrow with the tractor & loader. It's only four country blocks from where I live.To think I was going to purchase an engine from Jolly Old England and have it shipped over here. Now to find a place in the shed where I can show it to buddies but the wife won't be able to find it.
  I tried starting it today sitting outside in 25F weather. While I warmed myself up cranking, the engine only made enough compression heat to blow white smoke out the exhaust, the engine's exhaust pipe.............
  Suspected low compression as after getting her rolling decompressed. I could crank it continuously while under compression for 20-30 seconds until I was puffing louder than the Petter. Then again I'm currently soft and weak. My brother broke one of my legs last spring. And in late October a physician tried to kill me doing a biopsy. It took 5 units of blood to get my hemoglobin from 53 to just 100. 140-150 is normal.
  I'm kind of surprised at the size and weight of the beastly Petter. 
  There has been a hub and keyed shaft welded (spattered) to the flywheel as a "farmer fix". It runs true enough and has stayed on there for for 3 decades.
   The injection pump on there is a Bryce. Its either a new or freshly rebuilt unit. Model # FAOAB070C0177  and serial # YK11372. Does this make any sense?  Not a hint of any other ID with the exception of Krislar in some of the castings. 

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 04:56:29 AM »
  The engine has sat untouched since it was running in the shop a couple of weeks ago. I assume the fuel system is still primed and there was just not enough heat on the compression strokes to reach the diesel oil's ignition point. The shop was around 60F vs. 25F outside today.

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 06:04:10 AM »
  I might sneak the engine into the car garage tomorrow, put the heat on and blow the electric heatgun through the water ports to warm her up.And ensure the fuel tank is filled and the system primed.
  When she's smoking, she's at least getting some fuel?
  If need be, I wonder how to scare up an East Indian sleeve & piston?
  I can see no sign of a aircleaner ever being on this engine. No muffler either, just dirty threads in the head's exhaust port. It's likely sucked water, dust, dirt and small animals/insects into the engine during it's previous life.

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2007, 05:26:23 AM »
I don't think a Brice pump would have been OEM on an Indian engine so could it be tht this was rebuilt using KOEL parts at one time?

If you need to rebuild it there is the slim chance my DM 10 parts might be close enough to a to PH1 to convert it.

I have plenty of parts if I can help ....

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2007, 06:09:21 AM »
  I had grand plans of hauling the Krislar home today however the wife's Christmas reception overrode my plans.
  This engine is one of three identical units imported together from Jolly OLd England. The injection pump was "borrowed" from one of it's sister's that had "blown up" ?
  Without taking it apart this Krislar appears to be a an ordinary 3-7/16 X 4-1/3" bore PH1W Mark V Petter. With a round rather than a rectangular fuel tank. It appears the DM 10 parts should transplant.
  If this engine comes apart the compression is going to be boosted to assist making higher temps during the compression stoke. The hopes are to raise the odds of cleaner, more reliable ignition while burning wvo and have higher thermal efficiency.
  Doug I'll get some photos taken and sent your way soon. There were grand plans to visit you in Sudbury last September however the trip from Sue. Ste. Marie to  Kincardine ran out of time..

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2007, 07:16:03 AM »
If you can salvage anything from the Blown up unit jump on it.

I'd like the Crank gear and Cam gear, front rear main bearing carriers head and IP side cover.....

You know what if you can track the blown up one I'll take it.
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

listerdiesel

  • Guest
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2007, 08:39:04 PM »
The injection pump on there is a Bryce. Its either a new or freshly rebuilt unit. Model # FAOAB070C0177  and serial # YK11372. Does this make any sense? 


See:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Bryce/Bryce3.htm

6th line down.

That pump is the later AVA series II pump.

Peter

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2007, 12:32:29 AM »
   Hmmmmmmm. So according to the pump this is a " AVA Series II    AVA2     3 to 10hp     Diesel     Compression     3200000 - on
3299999    1952 - 1967"
            This engine has been well rustproofed with a surface layer of slobbered oil/fuel mixed with barn dust. Where is the most likely location to find the serial number plate if the milk cows haven't rubbed it off? 

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: 1970's Krislar but looks like a Petter??? What is it?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2007, 07:44:55 AM »
Just guessing but the Bryce pump might fit a more than just the AV series II.

The Roids seem to have the same pump and injector over a wide range and these were the days when having too much fuel rack was only a problem if you let it run away.

Pictures would help then we could pin donw for sure exactly what you have there Buck.
Data plate should be on the rocker box I believe.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/PetterData/PetterPH1W1.htm
This what it should look like

Again from Peter's website here is the series 1 AV1, notice the injector is straight and not angled this indicates its old. Since my PC crashed I lost a lot of pictures but the series II av1 should have a rocker box that looks like the PHW and the same angled injector ( for better cold starting ).
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/PetterData/PetterAV1.htm

I salvaged some more files.
The AV1 should have a data plate above the crank case cover on the oil filler/fliter side.
No PH or PJ pictures survived
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 01:37:14 AM by Doug »
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken