Author Topic: JKSON 8/1  (Read 6787 times)

matt

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JKSON 8/1
« on: November 17, 2007, 11:49:25 AM »
Hi there,

I am a newbie that is about to buy his first listeroid. After many, many hours of research (including reading this forum) I have narrowed things down to JKSON brand 8/1. (semi assembled)

Before I order, I thought I might just check with the experts out there to see if I am buying the right one.

I am going to build a genset with an ST-5 kva gen head and will eventually run WVO or WMO or WHO (waste hydraulic oil).

Many thanks to those who have shared their immense knowledge with the rest of us via this forum...it has helped me greatly!!

Matt




diesel guy

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2007, 02:15:23 PM »
I have 4 Jkson engines and I think the workmanship is pretty good. Are you buying them from Joel?
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-HP-JKSON-Listeroid-Lister-diesel-engine-block-head_W0QQitemZ110191950265QQihZ001QQcategoryZ11754QQcmdZViewItem

He is a good person to work with. I would put Xyzer's offset bolt in to provide proper idler gear alignment. Good investment. Then I would check the small area at the drain plug to remove any sand casting. The engines were spotless but had some sand had hidden in this area. I went with a 7.5 KW head for my 6/1's and with a 8/1, I would go with a 10 or 12 KW head with a heavy pulley from Mike.
http://www.listeroids.com/
 
The larger generator will give you larger bearings to support the pulleys extra mass. I have an one from Mike that has two pulley sizes for my 14/1, one at 600 RPM and the other at 850 RPM. I like the kit engines the best, I wish I bought mine as a kit. This way you could check everything during assembly, lap the valves ect. I had the bronze idler gear in mine and it started to wear on only 35% of the gear face, read Offset Idler bolt install report.

They seem well made to me. If you could, purchase the heavy 23.5" flywheels as opposed to the lighter spoked 23.5 flywheel to provide smooth AC power.

Good luck
Diesel Guy

MeanListerGreen

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2007, 03:03:54 PM »
I don't know the difference between the Indian 6/1 and 8/1 but the originals have some differences. I have only owned 6/1's.  I wanted a 6/1 because there seems to be a larger supply of parts and manufacturers.  The parts on the 8/1 may interchange.  The thing about getting oddball engines (and I'm not saying and 8/1 is oddball, but something like a 24/1 is in my opinion) is there are likely to be fewer of them made and part sourcing could be a challenge.  10 years from now trying to find a crankshaft for a 24/1 may be like trying to find a crankshaft for an inline 8 cyl Packard today.

Casting sand is usually an issue and if found in one particular area on one engine doesn't mean it's going to be in the same location everytime.  It's sand trapped in the casting and could be anywhere.  I would get a needle peener from Harbor Freight and run it every where I could reach it.  It will expose any hardened sand that it reaches.

Generator choice varies.  I was going to get a 20 KW because it was only about $100 more and I could use it on larger engines if needed but it was suggested it wouldn't be efficient to have a 6/1 trying to turn all that mass.  I don't know what the limits are.  I decided to go with the 7 KW.  The generator section would be a good place to research this.

Fuel types have varied success.  I don't follow the fuel sections religiously but from what I have read reveals that WVO is about the only thing the engine likes apart from fuel oil.  Most of the posts I have read about using motor oil and hydraulic oil lead to alot of coking.  There may be more success with mix them but I would do alot of research in these forums if you want to use them.

Good luck and my heart goes out to you if you have to ship very far.  Shipping fees are unrealistic anymore, all fuel related ofcourse.  I have turned down a few really good deals on engines due to the shipping costs.  Even picking them up myself is unrealistic if I have to travel very far.  It would be good to try and coordinate shipping amongst people in the forum needing things picked up to share fuel costs.  Thats probably unrealistic too.
MLG Gib Key Pullers

ronmar

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2007, 11:18:42 PM »
I think it really depends on what you use it for.  Your 8/1 should be able to sustain a 4KW electrical load.  An ST-5 would give you some reserve to start larger inductive loads, but would typically be at 80% capacity or less.  An increase in spinning mass is a good thing, but you will start to run into efficiency issues running a large generator at lower electrical loads.  IF you have a A/C unit or well pump with high startup loads, perhaps a 7.5K head would be a better choice, but that engine will only ever support a 4KW load long term.  Because of that I don't think I would run larger than a 7.5 on 8 horsepower.  Another issue in the case of an 8/1 is that it gets those extra 2 HP by upping the engine RPM.  The 4 pole ST's still need to turn at 1800 RPM and you will need a smaller(lower mass) generator pully to accomplish this, so you will loose a little mass over a 6/1-ST5 at 650 RPM. Your power pulses are closer together, so your flicker should be less noticable.  One of the attraction of these things is their fuel economy.  Anything that takes away from this is a negative in my opinion, so plan accordingly. 

Good Luck

Ron
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

matt

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2007, 03:48:42 AM »
Thanks guys for the info!!


Mean lister green -  I thought I would go with the 8/1 as it is exactly the same as 6/1 only has heavier/different flywheels for the higher 850rpm speed. So parts should be ok. I am also buying full kit of spares.....nearly every replaceable part including, complete camshaft, injector, fuel pump etc. for an incredibly low price. Hopefully I should be ok for decades! I suppose the crankcase has paint. I thought it was unpainted from JKSON. What happens after a few years when the paint breaks down and reveals a couple of sand grains...oh dear!

Diesel Guy -  I thought the Bronze idler was the better choice. Are you saying that it is not that great after all?

Ronmar - regarding speed of ST head....I live "down under" so I need 50Hz 240v. I am thinking this will make up for the smaller pulley mass you mentioned. I will not require so small a pulley as I only need 1500rpm not the usual 1800 you use "up over"

I really like the idea of the 2 size ST pulley for speed change depending on load requirements.

regards,
Matt


diesel guy

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2007, 04:17:38 AM »
Matt,

The bronze gear is the best, but it should be used with an offset bolt from Xyzer for proper alinement and maximum durability.

As far as a smaller diameter pulley for the 8/1 compared to a 6/1, they both have 23.5" flywheels. So they take the same size pulley.

"We ALSO have new flywheels, both the 6/1 and 12/2 six-spoke versions, and for those who need more HP, we also have the 23.5" Stover wheels (for 850 RPM). A 6/1 at 850 RPM is 8 HP, and a 6/1 at 1,000 RPM with the 20" Stover wheels is 10 HP. Similarly, a 12/2 at 850 is 16 HP, and at 1,000 RPM is 20 HP."

The smaller 20" flywheel is on the 10/1 operating at 1,000 RPM.

My 14/1 has a 23.5" heavy flywheel and its rated at 1,000 RPM.

Diesel Guy


matt

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2007, 11:07:15 AM »
Diesel guy,

That is very interesting. Is that the same 23.5 inch flywheel that is on the 8/1?
Maybe that means I can run the 8/1 at 1000 rpm with no flywheel explosion troubles.

I read about the dangers of overspeeding these cast wheels and I thought the bigger wheels weren't rated for 1000 rpm

That leads me to 2 questions....

1. Just how fast can the 6/1 and 8/1 flywheels spin safely?
2. Are the smaller and heavier 1000rpm flywheels (of the 10/1 and up) less effective at say 650 rpm because of their smaller diameter despite the weight gain over the other larger rim units?

Matt

diesel guy

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2007, 12:55:27 PM »
Matt,

I wouldn't spin the flywheels beyond their rated speed. 650 for the 23.5" spoked, 850 for the 23.5" stover and 1,000 for the 20" stover flywheels. My flywheels are heaver but I still don't like running them at 1,000 RPM. It makes me nervous. I always like a safety margian with things I do.

That's why I run it at 600 and 850 for safety and fuel economy rvrn though it might just be fine at 1,000. I would run the 23.5 stover flywheel at either 650 or 850 and the 20" if you wanted a faster speed.

Diesel Guy

matt

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2007, 09:17:10 PM »
Thanks for your help Dieselguy!!!

I am happy because I have since found out that I can get the JKSON with UNPAINTED crankcase interior!!!

regards
Matt
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:19:46 PM by matt »

diesel guy

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2007, 09:27:27 PM »
Matt,

 Matt,

One more thing. This is only my option, if you need 10 horsepower I would rather invest in a 12/2 operating at 650 rpm than a 10/1 at 1,000 rpm. Some people may disagree with that and they may be right.

This was part of the reasoning behind me going with a 14/1. It offers the reliability and simplicity of a single and produces about 1 1/2 times the power of a 6/1 and 3/4 of the power of a 12/2 when I operate at only 600 rpm and about twice the power of a 6/1 and the same power of a 12/2 when operating at 850 rpm, plus enabling a small improvement in fuel economy.

It also has larger and heavier flywheels. But a 12/2 will produce a smoother electrical output power so it my be the best choice. I wanted an engine that was right in between the power level of a 6/1 and a 12/2 and a 14/1 operating at 600 rpm fills my requirements. I like low rpm.

Diesel Guy

rcavictim

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Re: JKSON 8/1
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2007, 09:37:39 PM »
Matt,

 Matt,

One more thing. This is only my option, if you need 10 horsepower I would rather invest in a 12/2 operating at 650 rpm than a 10/1 at 1,000 rpm. Some people may disagree with that and they may be right.

This was part of the reasoning behind me going with a 14/1. It offers the reliability and simplicity of a single and produces about 1 1/2 times the power of a 6/1 and 3/4 of the power of a 12/2 when I operate at only 600 rpm and about twice the power of a 6/1 and the same power of a 12/2 when operating at 850 rpm, plus enabling a small improvement in fuel economy.

It also has larger and heavier flywheels. But a 12/2 will produce a smoother electrical output power so it my be the best choice. I wanted an engine that was right in between the power level of a 6/1 and a 12/2 and a 14/1 operating at 600 rpm fills my requirements. I like low rpm.

Diesel Guy


Diesel Guy,

I have independently come to the same conclusion as you. Multi cylinder engines are fine....until you have to rebuild them, then there are more of everything to buy and refresh.  More parts cost and more labour.  I like the idea for an off-grid engine to be as simple as possible and a big single, or a small single meets that specification.  I plan to make a similar power range (9-10 kW) genset as a backup to my 4 cylinder VW diesel plant that runs my shop.  I have decided it will not be another VW engine but a Changfa 1115.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:39:18 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
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