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Author Topic: Why we no longer build things....  (Read 5258 times)

Doug

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Why we no longer build things....
« on: July 24, 2007, 12:38:01 AM »
I made note of some electricalo equipment today on my rounds.

Mather and Platt Pumps co Ltd, gone....

Woden transformer, gone.....

Polygone transoformer, also gone....

Leper, gone ( along withthe GDR where it was built )

Kind of sad when you think about it. Because here are some great machines built buy people who realy knew what they were doing. These machines stood the test of time and continue to function perfectly as designed. On the down side the Skeral in the Woden and Leper present a problem these days and have to retired ( cheaper to scrap than clean and replace the old PCB oil with new safer products ).

I find  lot of old names crop up in India now....
and familair products like th Kirolskar ( Parrent compnay of the Indian Listeroids and Petter, KOEL ) also manufactures pumps a lot like the old Mather and Platts.

So why can't we build anything here in anymore with small comapanies like Polygone?
ABB, Rockwell, Schneider Hamond just to name a few are all giant companies, multinationals.

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

Tom

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 02:27:22 AM »
Three letters E....P..........A  >:(
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

clytle374

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 04:04:08 AM »
And no steel mills for steel
Five letters   U.....N.....I.....O.....N

Cory

MikeyT

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 12:55:52 PM »
Four letters, we are L-A-Z-Y

carlb23

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 02:28:12 PM »
Five letters
C H I N A

villageidjit

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2007, 03:21:55 PM »
We have met the enemy.....

and he is us!  (you and me)





Vic
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GuyFawkes

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 04:21:34 PM »


So why can't we build anything here in anymore with small comapanies like Polygone?
ABB, Rockwell, Schneider Hamond just to name a few are all giant companies, multinationals.

Doug


Marketing and finance, they have tendrils that reach into every last nook and cranny...

You pick the example of pumps, we'll use that...

You want to build a proper 1" farm / home / domestic water pump?

Let's take the old lister style as a starting point.

1/ It's crap because you will get precisely zero patents on it.

2/ It's crap because you will only sell one per customer every 20 years.

3/ It's crap because (see #2) it costs ten times as much to make as design X

4/ It's crap because the design doesn't lend itself to farming out manufacturing to just in time lowest unit cost sources.

5/ It's crap because it will be ten times the price of the competition.

6/ It's crap because nobody will lend you money to run the manufacturing operation.

7/ It's crap because of #6, and competing with large productions runs of cheap stuff is the only way to survive in business now, critical mass for a small business is no longer a dozen employees or so, not unless they are all in sales.

8/ It's crap because the potential buying public will never see it, your Sears etc won't stock it because it is so expensive there will be no margin for them, compared to the cheap pumps they carry.

9/ It's crap because it is quality, so it will reflect badly on every other line the pump sales outlet carries.

I could go on, but you get the picture.....


Where you are REALLY screwed is if you WANT to buy a quality pump.....

You'll have sites like this, where 99.9% of users simply would or could not pay for a genuine new Lister CS if they were still in production.....

You'll have the odd person who knows of a small outfit that still makes new pumps, maybe 50 a week, very expensive and a waiting list for pumps, but unless you are me or know me you'll never know such an outfit exists and assume they have all folded.

You'll end up going to Sears.....

Marketing and Finance, between the two of them they are vastly bigger than any small, medium or normal sized company, so they dictate the commerical enviornment that all such companies find themselves in....

People talk about EPA and crap like that, it doesn't affect the Marketers or Bankers one iota, if anything, it gives them extra channels to exert their influence, so it and its ilk ain't going away any time soon...

I could build up a new, as in all brand new, Lister CS clone, not indian style clone, pukka clone, everything as a minimum meets or exceeds lister specs, with AC genhead, variable DC dynamo from welding on down, 6 cfm 120 psi air compressor and reservoir, and dowty type (gear) hydraulic pump and ancilliaries to make a power pack, all in a steel cage / cradle just lift it with a hook or forklift, for about 12k UK pounds, I looked at this about 2.5 to 3 years ago, and walked away from it, thanks to marketing and finance, I would have been extremely lucky to sell even one, never mind one in a year...
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

dmp

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 08:58:42 PM »
Marketing and Finance didn't do too much for US Steel, new COKE or Hulla-Hoops.  Consumers ultimately rule.  We can be led
for awhile, but necessity creates a market.  If manufacturers go away, maybe nobody needed their product.  Maybe new
technology or a shrinking demand and therefore not enough revenue to stay afloat caused their demise.

Remember the last time you had shoes re-soled or re-heeled?

Piston engine goes ####...,MAZDA engine goes, um,...Hum?

David

Doug

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2007, 12:47:28 AM »
I just hang my head now....

Only myslef and gray beard industrail mechanic seem to notice things like the butchered stripped mangle threads on the studs to adjust the packing on the Mather and Platt pumps because they are BSF and noboby else made the connection before replacing them with metric or SAE stainless steel ( yet another stupid move ).

I'll pay for craftsmanship, specialy union made in Canada, the USA or EU....

I kind of miss the east block stuff before they went out of fasion. Soviet machine tools and East german industrial parts. Heavy and quirky but functional, repairable......

Canned herring in lemon sauce packed in the GDR, and they made some good mustard too. And it was safe to eat now you can't trust the food lol. Funny the things you loose when the ecconomy goes global..

Screw it.....
I'm just rambling now about what I had and what I want and what has been lost ect ect ect.

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

listerLD19

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2007, 05:17:44 AM »
Global economics

its a two edge sword

1  increased trade links creates reasons not to go to war with your trading partners
2  lack of self sufficiecy leads to lack of self sufficiency

the people in charge of the companies are global people
they don't think of a country as a home team like we do

they are jus as happy collecting their money on any continent

all i can see is an uprising of collected individuals clanning together to create self sufficient economies
either that or we will become human termites servicing the queen bee classes

personally i prefer my mamilian heretige

dskira

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Re: Why we no longer build things....
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2007, 10:55:33 PM »
People still doing beautiful things here. Looks at the hot-rod and chooper custom made. They are beautiful. Ok you need the right client, but they have plenty of them.
Some people still doing hand made engine, but yes very big, like EMD or even Caterpillar.
But perhaps inset of taking EPA as a nuisance, working with them to develop low rpm small engine will be a good start.