Author Topic: What type of storage barrel and how many steps  (Read 6862 times)

dourobob

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What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« on: September 21, 2011, 02:12:22 PM »
Hi
I am just beginning to wrap head around the WVO process for a Lister Petter TS2 driven generator and I think I have read well over 2000 post so far - ouch, my brain is beginning to hurt ;D, my eyes are glazing over and the information is getting scrambled, so please have patience with a newbie.

I live in Central, Ontario, Canada and my hope is to set up something simple but effective where I can use the "settling" technique and transfer the WVO through three or four barrels for 3-4 weeks at a time.

I have also read about dewatering, heating, 2 micron filtering, centrifuging etc. - sounds much more complicated than "settling"`and I would appreciate advice on how necessary each of these steps might be for the LP TS2.

I have lots of space in my shop (unheated) to store the necessary barrels etc.

A couple of specific questions:
  • Must I use metal (steel) barrels or will plastic work as well for both processing and storage?
  • Is the simple settling approach adequate or do I need to do more (and what more) in preparing the oil for use?

Appreciate any and all advise and insights.

Bob


dieselgman

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 03:48:34 PM »
Speaking strictly to your question about Lister TS2 and WVO - Since this is a direct injected engine and has fairly small ports and passages, carbon build-up will be an issue. I believe you will have to preheat your fuel or convert it to biodiesel if you expect to burn it in a TS series engine. If you preheat, I believe it will run through the TS fuel injection without an issue. That process does get a bit complicated.

 I do know about a fellow using raw veg oils in his direct injected equipment. His method is to thin and mix the fuel with a small fraction of (Regular Unleaded Gasoline) RUG to a very precise specific gravity and he has reported very impressive results in a wide range of engines that would otherwise choke on non-standard fuels. Of course he does extensive filtering of the fuel as well. I believe you can find him with a websearch under Dan MacAmoil in Kansas.

dieselgman
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dourobob

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 07:23:49 PM »
Thanks for your comments (once again).

The seller of this TS2 states - "This diesel has mechanical injectors and will run on almost any available heavy fuel including filtered french fry oil."

Is there something wrong with this picture?

Is there an easy way to check this ? - keeping in mind I am not a mechanic.

Thanks again
Bob
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 11:44:30 AM by dourobob »

dieselgman

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2011, 02:25:45 PM »
Any heavy fuel will likely cause carbon build-up from uneven and incomplete burning... the TS may run awhile like that but you will be more interested in the longer term and keeping your equipment together. There is nothing wrong with the TS design but you would have to do some modifications on your fuel to use it as suggested. This is par for the course with alternative fuels anyway!

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newlister

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 06:43:34 PM »
Hi Dourobob, i had an old propane bottle that I wrapped rubber heater hose around, top to bottom, to heat the oil, from the water jacket on my van. This metal went like, corroded rust. I would not want to use steel again. I then tried an old Rock Oil, 25 ltr drum, Plastic. This I liked better,  but in the top bit inside where the oil had been, and this left a brown varnishy stain, The plastic was white inside the drum. but gone an off colour now.  maybe I needed to clean it out more.?  I have 45 gal/ 205 ltr big blue plastic drums, that I use to filter/thru new jean legs, after its been,  left Cold filtered  thru bed sheets, three thick. then it goes thru a one micron 10 inch filter. then thru a Golden Rod fuel filter bowl.( I think the golden rod is not as low in Microns ?and also the Purtec filer on the van are not as low?)  Marle? filters, the glue comes apart. and this I have experienced to many times.--- then into a 20 ltr plastic container. and if and when I can get any surplus oil, into the Free/no cost----big barrels, Plastic.  Maybe Stainless would be better. But Expensive. Steel fuel pipes and Banjo's also go a rusty coloured looking, and need to be cleaned and scraped,and you cannot always get to some areas.to touch and scrape.  Anyone got any stainless Banjo's? or any other Idea's. Maybe I need to read more. But I am a Newbie myself to this site. The Injector Pump on my Lister C S looks a lot more simple, than my used to be (Turbo Transit) Have taken the turbo off now, less power, but less cost to repair. and Renault 2.8, and my 1500 Corsa. Any ways I have too much veg oil, got to make the best of it, Now. Cheers Newlister.

cashflo

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 08:50:33 AM »
I did alot research before I started veggin.
Read alot of people doing the Appleseed processing (heat and settle) method.
Some people that did the jean leg filtering (person I bought my truck did this method)
And those that Centrifuge

And anyone that did any of the first two then switched to centrifuge said it would have saved them a lot of money and time to start with a centrifuge. Gravity is one G my centrifuge 1350 G's

Initial start up is high but is cost effective in the long run.

I pour through a few barrel filters (600-200) from dudadiesel on ebay then i pump it to a settling barrel with a hard wired water heater element wired for 120v and another that is on an extension cord so i can use it else where when is gets cold.

I heat for about 3 hours about 180-200 deg f then let it settle for 24hours - 1 week (depends on free time) pump the top 3/4 of barrell to a gravity barrel.

Then it goes through a WVOdesigns inline heater (6 gallon water heater is best) into a centrifuge from Simple Centrifuge.

The only consumable I have is the a 2 micron Donaldson filter for my Vegistroke system on my f250. It needs only needs changed every 10-15k miles. Actually I just checked and its been 19k miles since my last change. The Veggistroke lets you know when the filter needs changed.

Harbor freight clear water pumps work if you keep it primed, Norther Tools are better quality and don't leak around the treads like HF sometimes do.
WVO Designs monster pump is AWESOME.

But if your handy get a m-55hv oil pump (generically refereed as  a SBC oil pump) for a small block chey drill and tap some hose barbs and connect to a motor. They great if done right. here is a link http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10978 but there are several people with their own versions.

If your heating the oil dont use plastic barrels, Steel barrels should be food grade that way they have the coating on the inside so you dont have to worry about poly buildup.

Then cleaner your oil is the better for your engine.
Gravity alone wont take out all the water. You need heat. I know a few that tried letting the oil set for 6 months in the sun in and the top 1/3 of the oil still didn't pass the HotPanTest.

LowGear

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 07:48:07 PM »
OK.  I bite.

What is the HotPan Test?

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Thob

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 10:55:41 PM »
OK.  I bite.

What is the HotPan Test?

Casey

The hot pan test is a test for water in oil.  You put some oil in a hot pan, and if it sizzles, or snap, crackle, pop, then there is water in the oil.  You need to get the water out before running the oil in an engine (water rusts the injection system) or attempting to make bio diesel (water + oil + lye makes soap, not fuel).
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cashflo

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 12:22:52 AM »
Also look for bubbles. You can google Youtube videos of it. I forget exactly  the Parts Per Million but if there is less than 5 bubbles in a table spoon sample your good.
My oil has rarley had more than 2 bubbles after cleaning.
The theory is you want the pan hot enough to flash boil the water but below the boil or smoke point of the oil. It actually takes quit a bit of water for it to crackle. I think the 5 bubbles thing is less than 100 ppm of water

slowspeed

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Re: What type of storage barrel and how many steps
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 02:00:01 AM »
I use a wast oil heater that I made  to heat my oil in the winter.This lets me get rid of the junk oil that I do not want to reuse!
in the summer I run the oil up on the roof of my shop thru some copper pipes to heat the oil (solar power Phoenix AZ.)
Then thru my dieselcraft FUGE.
Been running my Dodge truck and my 1980 Benz for a few years works good in my Lister also
I have a post on youtube
Just google 1234asdf1
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