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Author Topic: Slowspeedengines forum  (Read 16149 times)

Doug

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2007, 04:43:49 AM »
Not only am I an idiot to some, but now an ass hole.

Old Soviet era proverb:
All secrets are fleeting, all loyalty betrayed.
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

mobile_bob

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2007, 05:25:52 AM »
Doug:

in my own defense there is more to the story than the excerpt that was presented

when you got your st head back on april 5th, you found it to have problems
and made several posts in re to pat at altapro and not hearing back from him between then and
april 12th.

looking back and considering the frustration you related regarding your petterod, i see know
the stress you were going thru with another problem piece of equipment.

my comments came after some discussion on an topic unrelated to your experience with that
st head problem..

the problem is i too get frustrated, i get frustrated when people expect 1st world quality from a 3rd world country
at a 3rd world price,, but

having said that, my frustration should not have been taken out on you

and for that i appologize for portraiting you unfairly.

i hold you to a higher standard Doug because of your professional experience, most especially when it comes to generator heads
and electrical matters. and perhaps that too is unfair of me to do.

as i see it, (and i know my vision is not shared by many) when Doug calls an ST head junk there will be those that are new to the
game that see this as an indictment of all ST heads and the suppliers of same.

as opposed to Joe Smith DIY guy that clearly has no clue,, where even a new guy can see maybe old Joe is just a crotchety old fart
that is all thumbs and expects perfection and only want's to pay 10 cents on the dollar.

People look up to you Doug for advise and guidance, so what you say gets taken to heart by many.... and folks that supply these genheads
might very well lose sales.  in the end everyone loses..

anyway i could go on, but i won't

Again i appologize for the remarks, i just wanted you to know the less than stellar thinking behind them.

the friction caused over this board, that board, he said, she said etc.. is really not productive at all
hopefully we can clear the air and put this behind us

if you have any questions regarding any of this or other issues please feel free to email me, you have my addy

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Quinnf

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2007, 05:26:01 PM »
Doug,

The way you're going on and on about this, could it be whoever called you that has a point? 

Quinn
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

jimmer

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2007, 06:03:11 PM »
And this concludes yet another chapter of "As the Listeroid Turns".

Tune in next week as we find out if Doug and Mobile_bob make up, if Mr. Potato really is G's love child and much much more.

jim

okiezeke

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2007, 06:07:43 PM »
Never dull, often shocking, sometimes you just have to take a deep breath and wonder.
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

Quinnf

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2007, 06:23:28 PM »
I've gotta wonder what this is REALLY all about.  Seems much ado about nothing.  I"ve got better things to do, and I suppose so does everyone else.  Bob, well, he's sort of like a terrier.  Throw a ball and off he goes full of energy and enthusiasm.  But I'm tired of even watching this anymore.

Quinn
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

dieselman

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2007, 11:16:08 PM »
Reactions and spin....more than I expected.

Very entertaining

Jim
1995 F350 7.3L Diesel
8.3 ISC Cummins
14/1 Lovson (in progress)

cujet

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2007, 12:05:33 AM »
Yeah, that vibrating, leaking, slow speed, pulsating output, uncontrollable, unreliable, poorly made, time consuming listeroid is a wonderful thing. It took a lot of smooth words to get me to jump on the bandwagon, AND I knew better. So, in my mind, George has done wonders to get the DIY public to purchase these things.

I too was found to be "not meeting the requirements". Maybe that is because I actually know what I am talking about and tell the truth.

Things like saying "the listeroid is so simple it makes a Briggs look complicated". Really? In fact the single cylinder listeroid has far more parts than a single 6HP Briggs, I consider what he said a deliberate LIE! So, the slow speed forum can be for the folks who like to call me names! Go ahead and FLAME ME as much as you want on your private forum. Tell all the lies about me you want.

I will continue to tell the truth, Listeroids are fun DIY projects that fall far short of modern production engines in every way. ST/Listeroid gensets fall even farther, as the power is quite low quality.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

okiezeke

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2007, 12:16:53 AM »
Come on folks, let's not be so paranoid.  Let me repeat, after a review of all threads on the secret,private, forum, I could not find even one instance of anybody being flamed.  The discussions were very similar to the ones on this forum, but with better manners.
Mabe we could respect each other as well?  Mabe we could discuss issues, not individuals.  Mabe we could be respectful when we disagree.  Listen to yo momma!
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

dieselman

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2007, 12:46:26 AM »
What is the truth?

1. I was not allowed to enter the forum.

2. Since I was not allowed in the forum I can not speak personally for the content.

Why do you need a forum? Why not just email between you clan?

If George is trying to set up a customer base why not at least include his previous customers in the forum (if they so desire).

Let er rip.

Jim
1995 F350 7.3L Diesel
8.3 ISC Cummins
14/1 Lovson (in progress)

okiezeke

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2007, 01:27:10 AM »
Jim,
Don't know what George is thinking or doing.  Just trying to let folks know that his forum is very civilized and not "out to get" anybody.
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

mobile_bob

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2007, 03:21:09 AM »
i have no more to say about personalities, perceptions and realities

however i will continue to beat the drum for the listeroids

everytime i see a post that calls the listeroid a piece of crap i brissel
same for the st head.

it would be one thing if there was an alternative to either but there is not!

until the epa banned the importation of these engines one could get a 6/1 and an st5 for anywhere between 1000 and 1500 bucks.

now where is one to get a 1st world quality 6 hp slowspeed diesel and a 1st world quality genhead with clean sine wave for
anywhere near twice the price?

it ain't gonna happen

are the listeroids aircraft quality? certainly not,, but neither is a 350 chevy or a briggs and stratton

what other 1st world quality engine is available that can be torn down and rebuilt with damn few tools, and little experience?

again, none

who here knows of anyone who can make the patterns, cast or have cast the casting, forge the crankshaft, etc etc in a 1st world country
for a 6/1 diesel engine... for a price of about a grand? no one,, 2 grand,,, no one!  5 grand? possibly,,, but i doubt it.

so for your thousand dollars you got all the castings, machined fairly well, and sloppily assembled,, so you need to strip, clean and detail the
damn thing... BFD!!

some folks see the glass as half full, others see it half empty,,, still some will bitch because there are fingerprints on the glass!

some folks see problems and scream that they are a victim, while others see a problem as an opportunity to learn and embrace it.

a few weeks ago i saw the installation of a 6/1 listeroid that was happily running 16/7,,, with no issues,,, and i saw the engine it replaced that
had over 7000 hours that was put into service as a sandy, dirty, ill fitting piece of work that was just run till it had issues, repaired and put back into service

and it was still running when the new engine was set into place!

the listeroid may not be a swiss watch, but it can certainly be made to be a good servicable timex, with some work and attention to detail.

there are those that say "the listeroid is crap, i should have bought a mitsubishi or a kubota or whatever"
"the st head is a piece of scrap" i should have bought a "whatever"

to those that say that:

do you really think those engine's and generators have no problems? if so you are dillusional
even perfectly installed, properly engineered, impeccably maintained,, they to will fail

add to that,

unless you buy a pre engineered genset, have someone qualified to install it properly with all the proper stuff,
sign a service contract etc... they will fail for many of the same reason's that listeroids fail,, that being improper fuel lines
poor mounting , leaking coolant systems etc that are all too common for DIY guys.

even in the pre engineered, installed and maintained units there is failure..

even aircraft engine's fail!

so then one has to ask himself,, do i want to spend the serious bucks to have a professional engineered, installed and maintained unit
so that i don't have as much risk? or..

do i get by for far less money and assume some risk? or

do i cheap out and the scream bloody murder when all goes wrong and proclaim myself a victim and blame everybody but myself.

lets get real

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

rbodell

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2007, 03:53:25 AM »
AAAAAAMEN !!!

okiezeke

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2007, 04:11:23 AM »
Bob,
GOOD RANT!  You stayed with issues, you didnt call anybody names.  Your points were clearly stated and well supported.  I even agree with most of it.
The US equivalent of the lister is the Arrow, they start at 10,000.  I know Arrows have run for 50 years between major rebuilds.  They do,like roids,require routine maintenance.  They may even be better built that original listers.
ST heads:  Doug has done us all a huge favor in his ST rebuild thread.  Even with my two thumbs I've managed to replace the
chinee bearings with good sealed bearings.  I've cleaned the sand out of the casing, and sealed everything with glyptal.  I warmed the new bearings by placing them on the hood of a dark green truck in direct sunlight until they were almost too hot to hold.  They installed on the shaft with a minimum of gentle tapping.  The ST practically assembled itself, all i did was tighten the bolts to two grunts.
Now in the doghouse.  Need to replace all the crimp connectors as the chinee ones were installed by beating them with a rock.  Will install fuses for input and output circuits on the rectifier.  Will fuse the meter lead, replace the output lugs with some of better quality, . and fuse the AC output wires.  Add a filter capacitor to the rectifier output to clean up the waveform.  Will replace the doghouse with a real electrical box.  This is going to be some fancy ST15.
Is it worth it????
In dollars this upgrade will prob cost 350.00.  What do I get for my money?   Well, the silly thing had better work.  I am now familiar with every part of this machine.  I hope it will work better, last longer, and produce cleaner power that the original.

And, this IS a hobby.
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

Doug

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Re: Slowspeedengines forum
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2007, 05:07:48 AM »
At some point I'm Going to meet Bob and shake his hand, then I will hug him because it wierd and creapy and he owes me several seconds of discomfort lol.

I made a lot of emails to Pat, I caught him mid move from his old shop his new one but I got my end bell Yesturday in a neetly packed home made wooden box to ensure it arrive undamaged.

Is it the best going, probably not but a deal was struck and dollars per watt devided by issue and carry 2 for replacing the bearings and I am still ahead of the game compared to others. I also like the fact Pat answered my email and asked me technical questions about what I was doing and why.

Doug

Chris makes many points I must agree with, but I must also add not all roids are equal.....
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken