Maximum running angle

[martinwill]

What is the maximum angle of inclanation is it possible to run a petter PH2W, to fit the engine in my boat i will have to run the engine at 12 to 15 degrees off the horizontal, anybody had any experience in this field 

[rbodell]

What is the maximum angle of inclanation is it possible to run a petter PH2W, to fit the engine in my boat i will have to run the engine at 12 to 15 degrees off the horizontal, anybody had any experience in this field 

I have seen a lot of these in boats. Most any engine will run at that small of an angle, but I think that since these are splash lube, you would want to take the side plate off and see where the oil level is so you can be sure the level is up to where it should be.

By the way, I asume you are planning to put this in a displacement hull aren't you? You will be really dissapointed if you don't. sailboats without a mast are free if you look around. I never paid over 500 dollars for a boat in my life and most of them were free. All the ones I went on the ocean with were free with the exception of one. I borrowed that one. Luckily the lady that owned it knew me and that there was no telling where I was going or when I was coming back. I was gone with it for five years LOL.

Make sure you get a title before you get it it and make sure it is fiberglass. You don't want wood.

[Doug]

PH2 has a gear oil pump I believe....

[haganes]

if you are putting this in a power boat you do not have to worry about the maximum operating angle.  but if you are trying to put this in a sailboat, you need to increase the sump depth and lower the lube pump pickup tube for the new sump depth.  you need the abiliity operate the engine at 30 to 40% of heel in a storm.

regards,
captain steven

[rbodell]

if you are putting this in a power boat you do not have to worry about the maximum operating angle.  but if you are trying to put this in a sailboat, you need to increase the sump depth and lower the lube pump pickup tube for the new sump depth.  you need the abiliity operate the engine at 30 to 40% of heel in a storm.
Is a deeper sump even an option on those engines?

By design, sailboats handle better under sail than under power. They are grosely underpowered, basicaly just enough to get in and out of the marina and to move when there isn't enough wind. For somebody to put themselves in a position where they are under storm sail and still sailing at 40 degrees and in close enough quarters that they feel in need an engine to help them manuver, and still under way, is really bad carma and a sure sign of being in drastic need of some seamanship lessons.
regards,
captain steven

[phaedrus]

Hi Martin,

Tells us about the boat. What hull type, what size?

 I don't know what a petter PH2W engine looks like. What weight and what power?

Years past I had a volvo MD-20 I.O. on a 32 foot barge-style steel riverboat. That engine was a nominal 20 horsepower 2 cylinder. In serious wind and current on the Sacramento River it was not enough. In calms it would make hull speed and just a bit more, but under adverse conditions it would get a fella into a jam. Even in protected waters wind and currents can require considerably more power than you'd expect. (The volvo went away and got replaced by a 289 ford!)

[okiezeke]

r bodell,
I remember one night I was 2 miles off grand Bahama.  Squall hit, 50-60kn winds driving me onshore,  lasted almost an hour, seemed longer.  Without the motor to help, would have been on the rocks.  Zero viz, radar showed nothing but rain.  When it stopped raining I was 2 1/2 mi. offshore.  Good Motor!
Zeke

[rbodell]

r bodell,
I remember one night I was 2 miles off grand Bahama.  Squall hit, 50-60kn winds driving me onshore,  lasted almost an hour, seemed longer.  Without the motor to help, would have been on the rocks.  Zero viz, radar showed nothing but rain.  When it stopped raining I was 2 1/2 mi. offshore.  Good Motor!
Zeke

I never had a boat with a motor. If there was any question at all about the weather, I stayed way off shore so I had plenty of sea room. Of course that had a lot to do with why a float plan was seldom worth the paper to write it on. I also sailed single handed so I always figured if I was stupid enough to get muself into trouble, I wasn't going to ask anybody to come get me out either.

I did do a lot of deliveries by water of boats without an engine and it was surprising how few of them actualy had enough sails. You would think that others who sailed single handed would be more aware, but no. I often had to furnish some of the sails. Over the years I collected a lot fo sails. When I gave up sailing, I sold over 250 sails besides the ones that went with the boat.

You ever hear of a 24' bayliner buccaneer? ugliest boat afloat and had a really bad reputation, but I made it from Tampa to long island in 21 days regularely. Beat a lot of 40 footers. not all that was speed though, playing the currents and winds. I also made about 10 or 12 trips from Yucatan to long island with a ton of husked coconuts. It actualy sailed better with that than empty. With the extra ballast you could realy pour on the sail. being low in the water didnt hurt except when there was no wind. As long as it was over 25 you never noticed it. The only changes I made in it was double lowers, extra set of gudgeons and pintles and a huge ass cockpit drain. None of those rumors about the bayliner buccaneer were true except the ones about being ugly LOL. When Hurricane bob hit long island 40 fiiters blew over and drove the stands through the hull. Mine blew over too but  crushed the stands. When gilbert hit yucatan it ended up three miles back in the swamp setting on the deck of a shrimp boat. That didn't hurt it either. been off shore in bad weather too. It was completely submerged quite a few times. The only real bad damage she ever suffered was in that hurricane that hit down around barbados. Spent about three weeks waiting for a day calm enough to put the mast back up, but that was it.

[Bluecometk]

 Hey martinwill, I don't know anything about that Petter but I do know if it won't oil properly at the stated angles you can buy convertible gear drives (V drives) that will allow you to install the engine in the boat at (level) 0 angle from horizontal. This should solve your oiling problem. Also you can buy marine installation books that will tell you how to calculate the additional oil level needed to satisfy the applied degree of engine angle in your original question. The drives also can be purchased used at marine refitting yards up and down the East coast. The drives have varying angles so buyer beware.

Hope this helps.
Bluecometk

[phaedrus]

" husked coconuts" Ok, whatever. I used to see a gal skipper that did eastcoast deliveries, she hung out at key west, back in the day. Never said anything 'bout coconuts though...    Sort of a lady "Cap'n Ron".

Best,

P

[haganes]

By design, sailboats handle better under sail than under power. They are grosely underpowered, basicaly just enough to get in and out of the marina and to move when there isn't enough wind. For somebody to put themselves in a position where they are under storm sail and still sailing at 40 degrees and in close enough quarters that they feel in need an engine to help them manuver, and still under way, is really bad carma and a sure sign of being in drastic need of some seamanship lessons. [/b]

rbodell, no need for left handed comments about seamanship lessons.  this is what my wife tells me everytime we go through a weather incident.

by design, sailboats perform better the closer the hull speed you go.  if you have too small of an engine, you cannot approach hull speed and your vessel handles like a pig.  further, if an engine which is constrainted by heel, then it is removed as an option in a given circumstance.  if you want we can swap sea stories, but several times in the south pacific,  indian, and southern oceans i did need this sail/motor combination (motorsailing) on my previous 20 meter sailboat.  maybe i could have sailed my way out of these situations, but i did not have to find out.

my point is you can drive a car without a seatbelt, and you can go out into open ocean without a reliable engine - but stay out there long enough and you will wish you had seatbelts on your sailboat.

captain steven

[rbodell]

By design, sailboats handle better under sail than under power. They are grosely underpowered, basicaly just enough to get in and out of the marina and to move when there isn't enough wind. For somebody to put themselves in a position where they are under storm sail and still sailing at 40 degrees and in close enough quarters that they feel in need an engine to help them manuver, and still under way, is really bad carma and a sure sign of being in drastic need of some seamanship lessons. [/b]

rbodell, no need for left handed comments about seamanship lessons.  this is what my wife tells me everytime we go through a weather incident.

by design, sailboats perform better the closer the hull speed you go.  if you have too small of an engine, you cannot approach hull speed and your vessel handles like a pig.  further, if an engine which is constrainted by heel, then it is removed as an option in a given circumstance.  if you want we can swap sea stories, but several times in the south pacific,  indian, and southern oceans i did need this sail/motor combination (motorsailing) on my previous 20 meter sailboat.  maybe i could have sailed my way out of these situations, but i did not have to find out.

my point is you can drive a car without a seatbelt, and you can go out into open ocean without a reliable engine - but stay out there long enough and you will wish you had seatbelts on your sailboat.

captain steven

left handed comments? That is spoken with 80,000+ miles logged in boats without an engine, That means using an engine is not even an option. That doesen't include boats with an engine. That is experience. A whole lot more experience than iit takes to get a that captains license you are throwing around as if it meant something. All it takes is somebody writing a letter saying you have x number of days on a boat. Unlike a car, you do not have to take any test to show that you even know where the starter button is.

Oh yeah, seat belts ... they are for when you screw up. If you stay off lee shores in bad weather, you don't need them. That is just plane bad seamanship. In a car you are still responsible for watching the other driver and avoiding an accident. On a boat mother nature has no rules. 

I think that coveres the left handed comments

[phaedrus]

Some people might say that Cap'n Steven has reduced the metacentric height.

For what it's worth I heartily concur with the Cap regarding the practical safety an engine in a sailboat - they are not just a convenience, they can be essential. Things happen-that's nature's rule... Even in places like SF Bay you can get in trouble, weather is seldom ideal and always fickle, and traffic can compound problems.

More seriously, does anybody know anything about the Petter whatiz is talking about?

[rbodell]

Some people might say that Cap'n Steven has reduced the metacentric height.

For what it's worth I heartily concur with the Cap regarding the practical safety an engine in a sailboat - they are not just a convenience, they can be essential. Things happen-that's nature's rule... Even in places like SF Bay you can get in trouble, weather is seldom ideal and always fickle, and traffic can compound problems.

More seriously, does anybody know anything about the Petter whatiz is talking about?

Oh no, I never said unpredictable things wouldn't happen. A fishing boat was sunk by a cow falling from the sky. Like the broken flywheel in another thread parts fail due to hiden faults. What we were talking about was the engine being necessary to operate a sailboat. Don't misconstrew that as condoning sailing without one. I don't condone it any more than sailing single handed. Yeah I did both and I am the first one to say that anybody who does either is an idiot. Like I said, if I was stupid enough to get into trouble, I am not going to ask somebody else to risk their life to save mine and I have been in trouble out there.

The point is this, If you have a seaworthy boat with the proper equipment and the proper compliment of sails and the knowledge to use them all, That boat is going to do what it is designed to do and the engine is not going to make any difference. If you do not have the proper sails to keep the boat standing upright, the keel is not going to prevent you from going sideways. Then you do not make any headway. Yes, an engine will help make up for it. Seatbelts help keep you alive if you drive sleepy, fall asleep and run off the road too.

The same goes for the weather. There is no reason to find yourself on a lee shore being blown ashore. Even traveling throughout south america where weather reports were not even available and navigation charts were questionable at best, I never found myself in the position. Even when I found myself involved with hurricanes, none of the instances would have been helped with an engine. At best an engine gives a false sense of security that it will replace proper preparedness and planning.

On the few times I took people day sailng on a saturday morning I always told them, "if you realy have to be to work monday morning, you might not want to go". The reason for that as well as the fact that I didn't get killed, is that I don't take chanches on a boat. You ever watch somebody running under power downwind towards a bridge and the engine quit and the sail covers are on the sails and they are tied down to the boom? if you are in too much of a hurry to at least have your sails ready to raise or have them up, then you dont belong out there. If you don't have time for the wind to drop or change directions you don't belong out there. 

If you have to depend on an engine to get you out of trouble, why have a sailboat with far less power than necessary to do much more than get you in and out of the marina and built by the lowest bidder. If you put an engine big enough that you don't need sails. the weight will destroy the boats sailing ability. There is an old saying that you should "never have a sailboat engine any bigger than one man can remove and throw overboard as an anchor because that is all they are good for" Why do you think they put two engines in power boats. They are not nearley as dependable as a sail. You can fix a sail with a needle and thread. A lot of people say they wouldn't go on the ocean without an engine. Yes it is smart, but I personaly would not go on the open ocean without a sail and a mast.

[okiezeke]

r bodell
Met a guy in the keys you'd a liked.  Had a 50' twin engine salvage boat.  Tried to go under a bridge on auto pilot.  One enging died.  Made a direct hit on a concrete abutment.  Didnt hurt the bridge a bit.  He still thinks he's the best boat capn on the planet.

Nope, I dont know anything about petter oiling.

Zeke