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Author Topic: Russel Newbery Marine Engine  (Read 11872 times)

SHIPCHIEF

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Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« on: January 29, 2006, 03:21:48 PM »
Try:
http://www.russellnewbery.co.uk/
Sure looks like the Rolls Royce of Listers?
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

GuyFawkes

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2006, 11:52:15 AM »
There was a whole herd of quality engines, names that are now lost in the mists to 99.999% of the population, but there is no getting around the fact that Listers couldn't sell their own CS engines, and you RN twin is an example of why.

I worked quite some time in the private yacht market, nobody wants engines like these any more, even on true displacement craft where ballast is good, they want compact, therefore high revving, light, therefore cheap to fit, generic motors, because the smaller the motor physically the more you can hide it in some tiny cubby hole somewhere and the more you can lay out the interior to maximise the impression the boat is twice as big as it is.

L Gardner & Sons is a REALLY nice example of "rolls royce" lister, they took everything lister did to make sales impossoble and went further, gardner made their own injection pumps too (how many diesel "makes" can you name that do that?) fabulous quality, horrendous expense, every engine still hand assembled and this is tracked so you can go back to the factory and meet the men who built your engine, or the sons of, or grandsons of....  and the actual quality and ingenuity surpassed lister in many areas

For every CS lister didn't / couldn't sell, Gardner shouldn't have sold ten, yet Listers dropped the CS line, and Gardners can still sell all they can make.

Part of this is quality, in traction applications a million miles on a crankshaft (eg original bearings) was not exceptional enough to impress anyone at the factory (I know a marine gardner that motored accross the north sea with a broken crankshaft) in fact you're likely to get comments like "we don't require customers to inform us when our motors are run in, but thanks for letting us know"

Part of this is non-stationary, which would have been an easy mod listers never bothered with

Mainly it was piss poor management, just like truimph mptorcycles telling its engineers the nips could not build anything to compete, weeks before honda launched the sohc 750-4, and then management claimed they wouldn't sell because customers always bought british, not oriental rubbish.

Lister is still going, but they're not that big, and only ministry of defence contracts and such like kept them going while they learned hard lessons in economics and marlket forces.

The lister CS is a (to me at least) 1950's incarnation, and it only makes sense to people like us because we are living some part of our lives in 1950s style, instead of the rampant credit card fuelled consumerism buy use dispose buy again way we are supposed to today.

the RN is another anachronism, they'll sell maybe 20 a year, and that keeps them happy, but there's no future in it.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2006, 02:15:46 AM »
Guy;
I looked up the Gardner enthusiast site.
I think that I need a boat! I haven't found a marine Gardner here in Washington State, but I'm looking. I'll be putting that on my project list. It needs to look like a mini steam trawler, or a harbour supply boat. Something hardy and simple, no gawdy frills that were put in to make the boat seem more than it is (which makes it less).
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

GuyFawkes

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--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

quinnf

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2006, 06:12:34 PM »
Back in the 1970s when I was in high school a sailing friend told me about a Kiwi family that had just docked at one of the local yacht clubs after crossing the Pacific.  They gave a talk one morning to whoever was interested, so I showed up.  After a tour of the boat and the slide show, someone remarked that they didn't see any way of gaining access to the engine for overhaul and major repairs.  The owner looked at him blankly and said that it's unfortunate more people don't know about the Gardner diesels.  He built his boat around the engine.  The interior was crafted around the engine.  The deck was sealed over the engine.  Should the engine ever need to be removed, the interior will have to be disassembled and a hole sawed inthe deck.  The way he said it removed all doubt as to his faith in the reliability of the engine.  Pretty awesome example of what doing it right the first time can achieve.

Quinn

Procrustes

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2006, 07:22:41 PM »
Back in the 1970s when I was in high school a sailing friend told me about a Kiwi family that had just docked at one of the local yacht clubs after crossing the Pacific.  They gave a talk one morning to whoever was interested, so I showed up.  After a tour of the boat and the slide show, someone remarked that they didn't see any way of gaining access to the engine for overhaul and major repairs.  The owner looked at him blankly and said that it's unfortunate more people don't know about the Gardner diesels.  He built his boat around the engine.  The interior was crafted around the engine.  The deck was sealed over the engine.  Should the engine ever need to be removed, the interior will have to be disassembled and a hole sawed inthe deck.  The way he said it removed all doubt as to his faith in the reliability of the engine.  Pretty awesome example of what doing it right the first time can achieve.

Quinn

A computer programmer named Edsgar Dijkstra often complained about the notion of software releases.  His reasoning was that if you finish a program, why might you need to modify it later?  (This might be confusing to hose of you most familiar with Windows, Office, and like monolithic applications, but bear with me.)

Now I have a benchmark as to when the computer programming industry is as mature as the diesel engine industry: we'll delete the source code after delivering the application (yes my tounge is in cheek).

dkwflight

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine--Gardner engine
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2006, 07:27:47 AM »
Hi I found a couple on  http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/  a while ago out of Canada. They are a great engine. Many trucks and busses used them. One of them would make a grreat gen set. They had some small engines, 2cyl, I think
Dennis
Rolls Royce made some marine engines too, slow speed run forever types. I don't know much about them either. HAHA
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

Ironworks

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2006, 01:55:16 PM »
There was a whole herd of quality engines, names that are now lost in the mists to 99.999% of the population, but there is no getting around the fact that Listers couldn't sell their own CS engines, and you RN twin is an example of why.

I worked quite some time in the private yacht market, nobody wants engines like these any more, even on true displacement craft where ballast is good, they want compact, therefore high revving, light, therefore cheap to fit, generic motors, because the smaller the motor physically the more you can hide it in some tiny cubby hole somewhere and the more you can lay out the interior to maximise the impression the boat is twice as big as it is.

L Gardner & Sons is a REALLY nice example of "rolls royce" lister, they took everything lister did to make sales impossoble and went further, gardner made their own injection pumps too (how many diesel "makes" can you name that do that?) fabulous quality, horrendous expense, every engine still hand assembled and this is tracked so you can go back to the factory and meet the men who built your engine, or the sons of, or grandsons of....  and the actual quality and ingenuity surpassed lister in many areas

For every CS lister didn't / couldn't sell, Gardner shouldn't have sold ten, yet Listers dropped the CS line, and Gardners can still sell all they can make.

Part of this is quality, in traction applications a million miles on a crankshaft (eg original bearings) was not exceptional enough to impress anyone at the factory (I know a marine gardner that motored accross the north sea with a broken crankshaft) in fact you're likely to get comments like "we don't require customers to inform us when our motors are run in, but thanks for letting us know"

Part of this is non-stationary, which would have been an easy mod listers never bothered with

Mainly it was piss poor management, just like truimph mptorcycles telling its engineers the nips could not build anything to compete, weeks before honda launched the sohc 750-4, and then management claimed they wouldn't sell because customers always bought british, not oriental rubbish.

Lister is still going, but they're not that big, and only ministry of defence contracts and such like kept them going while they learned hard lessons in economics and marlket forces.

The lister CS is a (to me at least) 1950's incarnation, and it only makes sense to people like us because we are living some part of our lives in 1950s style, instead of the rampant credit card fuelled consumerism buy use dispose buy again way we are supposed to today.

the RN is another anachronism, they'll sell maybe 20 a year, and that keeps them happy, but there's no future in it.


Guy,

I just came across this post.  I wondered if you had any experience with Bolinder twin cylinder two strokes, if so, what is your opinion of them?  Thanks

GuyFawkes

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2006, 03:54:49 PM »

I just came across this post.  I wondered if you had any experience with Bolinder twin cylinder two strokes, if so, what is your opinion of them?  Thanks

I'm 99% sure I ran across one many years ago in a hallberg-rassey copy, if memory serves me correctly the lump came out of a barge (canal narrowboat) in the midlands, but beyond it being a stinkpot (2 stroke haze) I really can't recall much about it, as to the best of memory all I did was install keel cooling (no raw water) and a lagged dry exhaust for the owner.

Speaking personally I'm not a fan of stinkpots (2 strokes) petrol or diesel, so my opinion would always be biased against them anyway.

I had a related conversation with a guy a few weeks back about the stuart turner 2 strokes (petrol) in boats, I never liked them because I don't like anything more combustible than cold diesel anywhere in a boat, because you probably will still have a hull underneath you if you get a bilge full of diesel.

the only exception is the seagull outboard motor, which is a stinkpot and is something you could write several pages long lists of things "wrong" with it.... however, a 3 hp seagull will push a hull through chop that a 7 hp evinrude won't even look at, and you can throw a seagull over the side, fish it out the next day, and have it running in ten minutes, no spare parts required.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Ironworks

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 04:38:38 AM »
Guy

I have listened to a few sound files of these engines running and they dont seem to run steady (at least in the sound files).  Is this because they are a two cycle engine? 

GuyFawkes

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2006, 11:34:19 AM »
Guy

I have listened to a few sound files of these engines running and they dont seem to run steady (at least in the sound files).  Is this because they are a two cycle engine? 

possibly, best ask whoever created the sound file... seeing one (probably) fifteen years ago an expert does not make
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2006, 12:13:56 AM »
I had a Seagull, a 40 plus, I think it was. It was very old when I got it (and a 68' sailboat). It would almost plane a 13' boston whaler if I was alone in the boat. I recall that it was easy to start, like a British motorcycle. I should have kept it, the buyer didn't apreciate it. Tough, light, stinky, Funky. Lots o' low speed pulling power (Bollard Pull) for something you can carry in one hand.
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

GuyFawkes

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Re: Russel Newbery Marine Engine
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2006, 01:23:21 AM »
http://motors.search.ebay.co.uk/seagull_Cars-Parts-Vehicles_W0QQcatrefZC2QQfmcZ1QQfromZR8QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ9800

eat your fill, 50 bucks a pop, lots of spare room in mr listers container I expect
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.