Help with Stothert Pitt 32RD roller engine please

[cartoony]

I have just acquired a Stothert & Pitt 32RD roller with a single cylinder Lister diesel engine. Not sure of the exact model of the engine (will find out) but I've posted a picture of the roller here to hopefully assist, http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/5180338

The problem I have is that I can't start the engine. It's been sat for 5 years (apparently it did run 12 months ago though). I've cleaned out the engine oil & replaced.

We have had the engine running by squirting easy-start into the air intake while cranking it over - it ran, started to die, so we squirted some more easy-start in & it ran OK, started to die, easy-start etc. Using this method we got it to run for around 30 seconds, but as soon as I stop the easy-start supply, it stopped running.

This would suggest it's a fuel problem. It's been suggested that the injector might be blocked, however, unfortunately, although I'm a competent home motorcycle mechanic, I know absolutely nothing about diesels & don't know how to do this.

I would be extremely grateful if anyone is able to offer me any advice towards getting this thing going (or even some sort of service manual which details what I need to service/adjust) - we're a small village cricket club & can't afford to get the thing professionally done. It looks like it's something fairly simple - I just don't know what.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

[hotater]

cartoony---

Nice picture of the roller but not much for the engine!   

QUIT using easy start.   When the engine is correct it doesn't need it.

You almost certainly have air in the fuel line, somewhere.

Start at the connection from the fuel tank to the filter.  Loosen and allow any air to leave and re-tighten. 

Do this for EVERY fitting between the fuel tank and the high pressure fuel pump, and then purge the air from the fuel pump by removing the high pressure line from the top (assuming this is an engine I recognize).   Remove the cap from the top of the fuel pump and remove the spring inside it.  Remove the shiny 'button' visible in the top of the fuel pump, too.   Fuel should flow from the top without ANY bubbles...rotate the engine around and be SURE all the bubbles are gone.

Replace the metering valve (shiny button).  Replace the spring and cap.  LOOSELY attach the high pressure line at the bottom and disconnect it at the injector, but leave it aligned with the injector so it's easy to reattach.  Rotate the engine several time to cause fuel to flow from the loosened connection on the fuel pump, then tighten that fuel pump/high pressure line fitting....keep rotating the engine until CLEAR fuel squirts from the fuel line at the injector.   Tighten that connection while still rotationg.

You should now hear a 'tink' or 'grunt' every other revolution.  That's the injector injection fuel and the engine should run when compression is restored by removing the valve lifter.

[cartoony]

Thanks for your reply. I will try to get a better picture of the engine as soon as possible.
I think the fuel lines have been bled, but I will try it again using the method you've suggested.
Any other ideas or suggestions as to where I might get a manual greatly appreciated.

[mactoollover2005]

 Cartoony
              As with all mechanical things  remember the phrase KISS. Keep it simple stupid.. Sorry , not implying anything but start with the easy stuff,like fuel,u said it sat for 5 yrs, bet you they didnt change the fuel during that time.Also how about the fuel filters?? Bet you  the fuel went bad, so drain the fuel tank and put new stuff in it then follow Taters instructions to bleed the system.
 also, never run a engine using either which u were doing,will toast the piston and rings for sure if u do it too long.
Good Luck
Derek

[cartoony]

The fuel has been changed (not by me, though). It's got fresh 'RED' diesel in it. Not sure how well the system was purged though so will have a go at that. Probably won't get a chance until Saturday though. Will post results (& better pics of the engine for ID purposes) on the weekend. Thanks for your help so far.

[mactoollover2005]

  You said they changed the fuel,ok,not saying they replaced it with crap BUT unless u bought the NEW diesel fuel and drained the old stuff out and filled the tank then your only guessing and assuming they did it the right way. sometimes a tiny simple thing will drop kick you and have u scratching your head and wanting to toss a few or more things around in frustration.
 Worked on a Gennie one time and we were sucking air in the fuel line .. we  had replaced a fitting and installed a new line, well as things go the fitting had a very tiny burr that had cut into the thin wall see thru fuel line. 3 hours to fix a 5 minute job all because it looked like the air was coming from inside the fuel filter housing and not the out put fitting,grrrr.
Good luck
Derek

[cartoony]

Just got a chance to take some photos of the engine to help with IDing it. They're at http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/5180338
WIll hopefully get a chance to bleed the fuel system tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.

[listerdiesel]

Just got a chance to take some photos of the engine to help with IDing it. They're at http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/5180338
WIll hopefully get a chance to bleed the fuel system tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.

Photo DSC03926 has the spec plate in view. It looks like an LD or LR air-cooled engine, but if you can get the details off that plate and post them, we can confirm details and age etc..

Peter

[cartoony]

The engine plate is almost completely unreadable. We have another (different) roller but it's a similar (if smaller) engine. That engine is 3345LR118.
The engine I'm having the problem with has a No: xxxxR124, I think - at least that's as much as I can read.
As always, any help gratefully received.
Does anyone have any idea where I can get a manual for this engine (preferably for free)?
Thanks

[hotater]

Does anyone have any idea where I can get a manual for this engine

I'm not sure we're clear on WHAT it is, yet. 

From the pictures--

All I can tell for sure is what I believe to be the injector return line leaving the head cover and going to the fuel tank.  The fuel filter seems to be on the bracket behind the crank handle but I can't tell what is the incoming  and outgong line, or for sure where the outgoing line is going.  I *think* it goes behind to top inspection plate.

 IF that's the exit line to the fuel filter, you need to pull the inspection plate and go through the steps outlined earlier for bleeding air out of the system.  It will NOT run without it.   There must be an internal line running up through an oil return galley to the injector, but it's under the head cover right up on top.  It has to be the last stage in the bleeding process.

It appears to have a screw on canister oil filter that's fed by the line coming off the drain fixture.  There must be an oil pump in the sump.  I'd REALLY like a picture of THAT and how it's driven!

It think we're right back to the suggestions already been given--  Be sure it has fresh oil in the sump....30w is fine.  Look for a priming pump of some kind...if none, be sure to pre-lube it.   Be sure there's fresh fuel, and get ALL the air out of the system ..........and it'll run.

[listerdiesel]

The engine plate is almost completely unreadable. We have another (different) roller but it's a similar (if smaller) engine. That engine is 3345LR118.
The engine I'm having the problem with has a No: xxxxR124, I think - at least that's as much as I can read.
As always, any help gratefully received.
Does anyone have any idea where I can get a manual for this engine (preferably for free)?
Thanks

3345LR118

Serial 3345
Engine type LR
No of Cylinders 1
Date of Manufacture 1968

 xxxxR124

Same type of engine, might just be an SR, but looks like a much later model, 1974.

LR/SR manuals come up on Fleabay quite regularly, I have them here for reference if you need anything quickly.

http://www.abebooks.com is a good place to look also.

Peter

[cartoony]

Right then.......
The gravity feed from the tank to the fuel pump is all bled (new fuel), but there's no fuel pumping up to the injector.
Looks like the reason for the problem is the fuel pump.
Does anyone have any experience of how the fuel pump works, or even better a workshop/parts manual for that bit that they could send me?
If you can, please send it to me at "chairman 'at' dhcc.org.uk".
I'd be extremely grateful.
BTW I'll try to get a photo o the oil pump for you, hotater.

[mactoollover2005]

Cartoony
           Since i have never seen this type of engine before can u tell me what type of fuelpump it is? is it driven by a gear ,a lobe, a push rod? What activates the injector? is it a rocker arm that activates it? if so then u probably could get by with a electric fuel pump to use as a substitute to get it running,just need to find out what pressure the pump created in the first place.
Good Luck
Derek

[listerdiesel]

The injection pump is a basic BPF1A from memory, look here for the exploded views and strip-down details:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Injection/CAVpics.htm

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Articles/diesel1.htm

Peter

[Groundsman]

I have two Stothert and Pitt 32RD rollers for rolling my Cricket Pitch.
I recently aquired the second on from a cricket club who had not used it for about 3 years.
After bleeding the fuels lines (as described) it started, ran briefly and stopped and would not start.

If your engine still does not run the follwoing may be useful.

Investigation revealed that the spring which holds the control rack open against the govenor had become detatched.
This meant that when the governor tried to slow the engine it move the rack to the 'stop' position when it remained until manaully reset. (It is visible when the cover plate is removed).
The solution was to remove the left hand side casting (looking at photo DSC03926) unscrew the speed controll/return spring. Reattach to the controle rack and refit the cover screwing the speed control back throught the cover.

Before removing the cover you will need to undo the bolt holding the fuel filter onto the cover. When refitting the cover it may be necessary to remove the ouside oil seal which goes over the starting crank. There is a clip behind this whihc can be unwilling to push fit over the starting crank.

It is best to fit a locking nut on the outside of the speed control as this tends to work in (reducing engine speed) or out (incresing engine speed) due to the vibration of the engine. This screw is often secured with a blob of paint on engines that have been factory set to 1500 RPM. It looks as if your engine is fitted with a lock nut on the adjuster.

I note from picture DSC03926 that the engine cut out on your engine is currently set to the cold start posiyion, this will cause the engine to run rich. I would also sugget fitting a piece of wire (coathanger) through this to allow you to stop the negine without having to get your hand in when the engine is running. There is usually (often) a bracket which fits to the rocker box to keep this vertical for ease of access.

I hope that this helps.