Preparing for extended run times

[MikeyT]

Here is an oil filter kit from for sale in England... http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/erol.html#463X644

[diyer]

I have had some luck with accoustic ceiling tiles.  They cannot be wet, are fire resistant, and are usually pretty cheap when there is an office renovation throwing them away.  I screw them into wood.  You need to bounce the sound around a little through baffles constructed of the tiles.
I have made boxes of ceiling tiles for a festival that I go to.  I have a Honda EU2000i which is pretty quiet as is.  Once I put it in the box, it is impossible to know if it is running.  I run some lights all the time to know when it shuts down.

The lister will have a lower frequency.  You should install the inner panels isolated from the outer panels so the inner panels don't transmit the sound through vibration.

diyer

[biobill]

great idea diyer - now why didn't I think of that  ~Bill

[rmchambers]

Scott,
   If the engine is going into shutdown, its probably because of some serious issue going on and having coked up rings is the least of your problems.

What are the main reasons you'd want a kill device?

Runaway (uncommanded high RPM)
excessive vibration (something about to shake loose)
over temp
low oil

There might be others but those are the ones I'd think you'd be most interested in.

The bottom line is that any one of those is bad news and getting the engine stopped asap is your primary concern.  Nobody said you had to just shut off the air though so I think a combination of a solenoid to pull the rack shut or stop the flow of fuel AND starve it of air would be the best of both worlds.

There are a couple of building supply houses in Bridgeport that might carry rockwool - I've bought stuff from this place where nobody else has had it.

Homer C Godfrey Co   
(203) 336-1823  |  1360 Central Ave Bridgeport, CT

If they have it I can pick you some up, give me an excuse to drive to work and swing by your place to check it out.

Good luck

Robert

[rcavictim]

You want a shutdown device to activate if you run out of fuel!

This sounds funny but I am serious.

In addition to the factors that would activate an engine kill switch I would add the case of nearly running out of fuel.  If you can shut `er down before it sucks air into the line to the fuel tank and the fuel injection pump  you will save the re-priming of the fuel system. 

If you have any electrically heated fuel lines or injector you`d want to be sure to switch off the heaters as well if the engine is to be auto stopped in case they are powered from a battery or something that would keep them operating.  You don`t want to turn any residual fuel in the lines into carbon.

[SCOTT]

Mikey T
Thanks for the link, my engine has the same filter on it.  The guy in England buys from the same vendor I do.

Diyer
I like the celing tile idea, they are cheap and easy go get for sure.  If after I finish with the drywall and Homosote the high frequency is still too loud I will try the tiles. 

Rmchambers
I agree if is there is an emergency shutdown situation there is a larger problem then fouled rings to worry about.  I may take you up on the rockwool offer if the drywall/ homosote does not do the job.

Rcavictim
I could add a low fuel shut down, it would operate the same as the low oil cut off. 
I do have electric fuel heating which is self regulating; it is on till the temp reaches 230f and then it shuts down untill it falls below 200f, and the cycle repeats.  I would link all the cut offs to one master switch that when activated would cut power to:
The air inlet
The fuel supply
The fuel heater
I think these items can be pretty simple devices.

Has anyone actually implemented an air cut off?  There has been much discussion and I think there is a good diagram of such a cut off.  If anyone has made one of these cut offs I would love to see some pics.

For the oil filtration I am going to use cartage filter similar to whole house water filters.  They accept a 10” wound string element in various micron ratings which cost about $3.00.  There are filters capable of handling oil, and the housings/ elements can take up to 150f, I doubt the oil will get hotter than this.

Best regards
Scott

[rmchambers]

Good point on the line/injector heater.  If you had a murphy type controller or one of the other ones that have been mentioned on this site you could have a couple of shutdown relays that once the controller has decided to shut the system down it drops power to all the "running" relays.  One shuts off the line heater, one drops a solenoid that drops a ball into the intake pipe and seals it, another one pulls the rack shut, and another one turns on a light somewhere to let you know all is NOT right with the world.

Having a panic switch input to this system would be good, from the doorway of the shed.  That way if something happens that you don't like the look of but the murphy system hasn't figured out yet you can shut 'er down without getting too close.

Robert

[biobill]

Scott,
  I have a remote MANUAL shutoff that works just fine. A spring loaded plunger pushes a hard rubber (super)ball into the intake when a retaining pin is pulled. Either plunger or retainer could be solenoid activated for an automated system.
                                               Bill

[SCOTT]

Hello all I would like to resurrect this thread, the main goal is to discuss the best way to run a lister type engine for extended periods unattended. 

My situation is as follows:
I have a 6/1 in a detached garage that has been treated to reduce sound.  I have a layer of 5/8 drywall on top of that is homosote and on top of that is another layer of 5/8 drywall.  The second layer of 5/8 drywall was not my choice, it wad done to meet fire codes.  The mechanical noise is almost nothing when over 10ft away from the building.  The exhaust is directed into a buried 30gallon drum by a 2” black pipe.  The outlet of the buried drum goes into corrugated black plastic pipe and is a downhill run for at least 50 ft.  At this point the noise issue has been taken care of.

Fuel is wvo run through a makeshift bag filter then stored in a 16 gallon plastic tank.  The oil is then gravity fed through a 10 micron wound string filter and onto a 5 micron string filter, each costing about $3.00 from Mcmaster.

I have been experimenting with different operating rpm, I ran the engine at 380rpm and was able to produce 1500w at my inverter (this is after generator, line and interface losses) for 51 hours without stopping. The only problem I was able to detect was that the belt attaching the engine to the gen started to wear and there was a fine black dust on the side of the generator.  I concluded this was due to some slipping on the pulley, which is only 5” in diameter.  I do have an idler pulley to create more belt to pulley contact, but even with this it seems to be slipping, and it is already tighter than I would like.

I am considering having another pulley made, this time 6” which will allow me to run the gen at about 475-480 rpm

I am running the engine at a lower speed, primarily because it makes less noise, which will allow me to run it 24/7.  If I do run it 24/7 the gen room is always warm and I don’t need additional diesel or hands on time for the start up/ shut down fuel switch over.  Running the engine 24/7 will make oil changes and other maintenance chores more frequent, but at the lower rpm I think I should have an adjustment factor.  A bypass oil filter is an obvious upgrade I will be adding, to help extend oil change intervals.

My most pressing concern is how to protect the engine from self destructing if there is a problem.  I am looking into some electromagnets that can be used to hold open fuel, compression, and air intake.  If power is lost to the string of electromagnets all three will turn off, releasing whatever they held open(on)  I believe I need high engine temp. oil level and something that will react to over speed.  High temp and oil should be straight forward, but over speed may require some creativity.  Any suggestions?

Also please point out any problems with running the engine at a lower speed.

I plan to gather data on fuel consumption vs load and rpm to determine the optimal running rpm based on fuel consumption. 

Any other suggestions on anything I left out is appreciated

any insight form others running long hours would be great
Scott

[SCOTT]

some early data

Last night I ran my 6/1 on filtered wvo from about 5:00pm untill 8:00am this morning at 405 rpm.  I started recording fuel consumption at 11:00 pm.  By 8:00 am the next morning I had used 1.75 gallons of wvo and the production over that 9 hour period was 13.5kwh. 

So the breakdown is as follows:
                                                                                                           Gallon
Gal used   Time in hrs     gal/hr       prod in kwh   consumpt per kwh      Yield/kwh
  1.75          9.00          .19              13.5                              .13                      7.70

This is better than I expected, I will repeat over a longer period and see if the numbers are the same. I also intend on experimenting with different rpm settings.  I believe these numbers are better than running the engine at 650 rpm when adjusted for higher kwh output

Scott

[rbodell]

some early data

Last night I ran my 6/1 on filtered wvo from about 5:00pm untill 8:00am this morning at 405 rpm.  I started recording fuel consumption at 11:00 pm.  By 8:00 am the next morning I had used 1.75 gallons of wvo and the production over that 9 hour period was 13.5kwh. 

So the breakdown is as follows:
                                                                                                           Gallon
Gal used   Time in hrs     gal/hr       prod in kwh   consumpt per kwh      Yield/kwh
  1.75          9.00          .19              13.5                              .13                      7.70

This is better than I expected, I will repeat over a longer period and see if the numbers are the same. I also intend on experimenting with different rpm settings.  I believe these numbers are better than running the engine at 650 rpm when adjusted for higher kwh output

Scott

Something I am watching with lower rpm is how well the fuel is burnt and how much carbon is left in the cylender.

[mike90045]

I am looking into some electromagnets that can be used to hold open fuel, compression, and air intake.  If power is lost to the string of electromagnets all three will turn off, releasing whatever they held open(on) 

Sometimes, a DC electromagnet, when powered off, will still retain some residual magnetism, and continue to "hold".  Maybe running from AC will prevent this.

[BruceM]

Scott-
I have an automatic start/stop Listeroid, using pneumatic actuators.  This was easier for me as the engine is also my air compressor, thus air is always available.  I made two actuators from single action, small bore cylinders; one is a valve decompressor, one is a rack closer. I needed these for regular remote starts and stops. Like on the SOM, they are both operated off of the same 12V air solenoid.

If you only need an emergency shut down, you could do this with a small potable tank charged periodically.  But the  expensive electric rack closer listed in an earlier post might be more suitable.

I have a homebuilt magnetic float in an oil level sight tube, which triggers reed relays for low/high oil level.  This still has some bugs to work out- the running oil level is not the same as the off level, in part because of a gravity flow bypass filter which I have inside the crankcase.  I may change to a linear hall sensor so that my Picaxe controller can sence the oil level as an analog voltage.

I found a Murphy brand engine vibration switch unit and this is also connected and operational.  If I slap the case with my hand the engine stops.  It is set just below the level where it will trigger during normal start up. 

I used a water heater thermostat glued  to the head with steel filled epoxy for an over temperature sensor.

For over-speed sensing, I'm using the Cherry hall effect gear tooth counter, held on a bracket right next to the flywheel spokes.  The Picaxe processor uses the Basic Count command to count pulses in a 1 second period, and shuts down the engine if it is under or over speed.  It also uses the engine tach sensor data for the auto starting sequence.  My starter is a Gast 4AM air motor with a rubber drive roller mounted on the shaft (McMaster.com) and another air cylinder presses it against the flywheel  wheel for starting.

A reserve tank in then engine room on a check valve has air for start/shut downs, even if the main 500 gallon air receiver is too low.  The processor also has a low air sensor for the reserve tank to initiate a shut down if air levels are falling too low.

I hope this gives you some ideas.  I'm glad to share my successes and failures.  Email me if you need more detail on a specific item.

Best Wishes,
Bruce M
Snowflake AZ
Metro 6/1

[rbodell]

Scott-

I used a water heater thermostat glued  to the head with steel filled epoxy for an over temperature sensor.

Best Wishes,
Bruce M
Snowflake AZ
Metro 6/1

What is that steel filled epoxy, something you buy or make?
What about JB weld?

I like that idea. I have temperature controlled fan switch on mine, but the engine occasionally gets slightly above the temperature it goes off at so I get some false warnings. This would be better because I could set it manually as to when to go off. In fact I even have a couple..

[BruceM]

Weldbond or Epoxy Steel (Devcon) brands- both steel filled epoxy, seem to work the same to me.