New Lister 16/2 - unlikely discovery, inspection questions

[jtodd]

I'm looking to purchase an original Lister 16/2 that has been in storage for a while.  I'd like to inspect the engine before I hand over my payment, and I'm hoping there are some tricks that can be passed to me so I don't get handed someone else's problem child.

My questions are:
  - on an "original" Lister 16/2, what specific issues should I be aware of during inspection?
  - his there some magic method that anyone knows of to determine relative number of hours for the engine, based on some wear indicator that is easily examined externally?
  - what should I look for that may have gone wrong during storage?

My ultimate suspicion is that this is "too good to be true" so I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, like finding it was stored under a leaky ceiling tile or something and is rusted beyond repair.  I won't be able to start it up on site, so it's "buyer beware" I'm afraid.

JT

[Stan]

Can't help JT but I can advise to wait until you talk to Peter "LIsterdiesel" as he's the acknowledged expert on them.  I'd be interested in hearing what it's all about.
Stan

[binnie]

Whow!
So long as there is no frost damage to the two heads' water jackets (and that should be obvious as a split, crack, discolouration from running to hot, etc.) sounds like you have a winner and a rare find at that. Did you take any picts. They might be helpful for members to spot anything obvious that may help you make up your mind. If it were me, I would already have it in the shed. binnie
 

[binnie]

jtodd,
Check out rleanord's (2) coppermine files for a comparison..He is the only member I know of who has another 16/2 original...I have never even seen one on ebay uk, and I check every day. Occasionally a 12/2, perhaps once a year...but you are talking rare. With your expertise in welding I wouldn't even worry if there was a frost crack in the head. With the stepdown pulley he has the option to run it at 800rpm or 500 rpm  for more or less draw on his gen set. Nice option.
binnie

[rleonard]

Here I am, and Yes I have a Lister 16-2.  (I just realized that that sounds like "I am Bob and I have a Lister".  Should I be attending some group therapy meeting?)

Anyway, whatever youneed to know about it just ask.  I have  a friends 12-2 sitting here as well.

Bob

[wrightkiller]

Your just 12 steps away from it

[listerdiesel]

First and foremost, of the engine is reasonably free to turn, DON'T turn it over as the pump elements may be stuck up and you'll break off the plunger 'ears' which will costs you $70 or so per pump straight away.

Most of the obvious things have been mentioned, a genuine Lister 16/2 will have solid flywheels with cast in holes, a generator spec 12/2 will be the same. The engine number plate will give you the information required, the spec number should be somrthing like:

XXXX162XX

If it is anything else in the middle than the '162' then you have got something different.

If you have compression change-over knobs/handles then it isn't a 16/2 either.

Make sure you have the starting handle, it should be a 'two-hand' grip type.

Get the beast home and post some pics and numbers please.

Peter

[Ironworks]

Also if it says Automann its not a Lister its from Pakistan I believe.

[jtodd]

First and foremost, of the engine is reasonably free to turn, DON'T turn it over as the pump elements may be stuck up and you'll break off the plunger 'ears' which will costs you $70 or so per pump straight away.

Peter-
  Thanks for the hint.  In case this is what it seems and I end up with it, what's the suggested method for un-sticking the pump elements before turning it over?  I'll get pictures and report back in a week or two with what I find.  All of the questions I've asked were answered affirmatively on things like "Are you sure that it is an ENGLISH-made Lister?" and "Two cylinders, weird connecting rods visible on the outside, right?  Two big honkin' flywheels, right?"  so I've got high hopes.

JT

[listerdiesel]

Peter-
  Thanks for the hint.  In case this is what it seems and I end up with it, what's the suggested method for un-sticking the pump elements before turning it over?  I'll get pictures and report back in a week or two with what I find.  All of the questions I've asked were answered affirmatively on things like "Are you sure that it is an ENGLISH-made Lister?" and "Two cylinders, weird connecting rods visible on the outside, right?  Two big honkin' flywheels, right?"  so I've got high hopes.

JT

The pictures of the pump dissaembled and the write-up for stripping etc are here:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Injection/CAVpics2.htm

and here:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Articles/diesel1.htm

You can strip the elements out of the pumps fairly easily, it is reassembly that needs more care.

Peter

[rleonard]

Other differences between Lister 16-2 and 12-2 are;

16-2 has cylinders with the 4 main studs at the corners of the cylinders exposed.  The 12-2  has the studs running in enclosed  in thru holes.

The 16-2 has aluminum pistons.  12-2 has cast iron.  Bore the same.

12-2 rated at 650 RPM, 16-2 at 850.

The increased RPM is why the flywheels are smaller in diameter (22") and have a thicker rim that the 12-2.

There is no compression changeover on the 16-2.  The hole on the head has a threaded in plug.

That is all I can think of at the moment.

Bob

[binnie]

Normally the flywheels of an Original  12/2 will be the typical 6 spoke type (similar to the 6/1 that you have) and the 16/2 has the more massive (smaller diameter) SOM type whith 2 0val holes & one round hole in an otherwise solid mass (see rleanord's picts on copper mine for an example). Fly wheels can be a dead give-a-way of the potential hp of the motor, and you go from there...
Look forward to your picts & am keeping my fingers crossed for you. binnie

[jtodd]

Most of the obvious things have been mentioned, a genuine Lister 16/2 will have solid flywheels with cast in holes, a generator spec 12/2 will be the same. The engine number plate will give you the information required, the spec number should be somrthing like:

XXXX162XX

If it is anything else in the middle than the '162' then you have got something different.

Just checked the serial number via phone.  The serial number is 29016-2000 which matches the pattern, so I think I'm good to go.  Pickup is on Friday, crossing my fingers.

JT

[Ironworks]

Just out of curiosity, how did you come across the Lister?

[jtodd]

Just out of curiosity, how did you come across the Lister?

The short answer is "persistence" and "karma" and I'll go into the long story after I have it sitting on the floor of my workshop (until then, it's all speculation, and I'd hate to jinx myself.)

JT