Low buck vibration isolation mount

[biobill]

I've got some more pictures up on coppermine http://listerengine.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=128 and that's the limit of my patience for today!

                                                   Bill

[mobile_bob]

here is the hot tip of the day

permatex makes a copper based silicone sealant, high temp
put your exhaust connections together with it and you will seal off your leaks

we use it to seal exhaust seepage on exhaust flex pipe to pipe with band clamps on mid and
heavy trucks, works well.

bob g

[mobile_bob]

Bio:

please take this for how it is intended, i am not trying to be critical, but we know what happens in a fire.

you need to cease using this unit until you install a suitable fuel line from your fuel tank!

copper as a fuel line is ok i guess if adequately supported.

copper will work harden, crack/leak or completely break off at one of the fittings and dump a flame accellerant all over your engine room.

i loop in the copper will help, but will not eliminate the risk, it may prolong the lifespan, but fail it will.

with the tank mounted high it will gravity feed till dry,

better to go with synflex (tm) which is a thermoplastic, used for truck air lines as well as fuel lines. but in a fire it will melt and add to the problem
or go with a single braid fuel line such as stratoflex (tm) which is also used in truck air and fuel lines

synflex is cheap, and it works
stratoflex is relatively expensive and it also works
neither will fail due to work hardening

please replace the copper line

bob g

[biobill]

   Do I have to shut it down right now Bob?
  I understand your concern, and believe me, I don't want to be the second disaster in these pages. Let me just explain whats going on so you don't think I'm a total idiot.

The fuel line is temporary until I make a decision on a soundproofing enclosure.

In order for copper to workharden it would have to be held far more rigidly than in my setup. The tank is suspended and there are rubber (floroelastomer actually due to biodiesel's effect on rubber) hoses making the connection at both ends. There is no way that the copper is being flexed by the engine movement which is in the neighborhood of an eighth inch. Not a doubt in my mind that it would outlast me if I chose to leave it there.

The flashpoint of biodiesel is 300+F  If you throw a match in a cup of it, it will be extinguished. It will certainly accellerate a good going fire but is very unlikely to initiate one. My loading bench is on the opposite wall with lots of powders and primers, there's paints and solvents, some nice dry firewood and kindling etc. If she goes Bob, that 5 gal will be the least of my worries.
 
                                                                   Bill
   

[dieselgman]

I work on standby power installations all around Alaska. In the years I've been doing this job I've seen quite a number of fire disasters that originated in diesel generator sheds. If your generator is housed anywhere near, adjacent, or attached to your living quarters then I would second the caution about NOT using copper for fuel delivery lines. For fuel supply we use properly anchored black-iron-pipe in all our generator installations with flexible/reinforced connections and fire safety valves at entry and delivery points. This caution is suggested because of fire safety issues related to any fuel type regardless of its apparent safety under normally controlled situations.

Best of luck with your installation

Gary,
diesel-electric.us

[biobill]

  I don't want anyone reading this to think that I am defending the use of copper as a fuel line. Two very experienced members have pointed out very good reasons not to use it. Soft copper as I used would typically have flared or compression fittings on the ends which would hold it quite rigidly. Assuming your fuel tank is rigidly mounted, the movement of the engine, however slight, will cause the copper to flex, and, in time, fail.
                                                             Bill

[rmchambers]

So for a home setup, would the use of those "pryomatic" valves be sufficient?  they are code on oil heating systems - if there's a fire the solder in the knob melts and a spring closes the oil supply.  I have 4 of them in my heating/hot water setup as well as the electrical equivalent mounted above both devices to shut off the power as well.

They do make a handy shutoff valve though so that's probably not a bad investment in the design.

Robert

[mobile_bob]

Bio:

i just wanted to point out the issue of using copper

what i should have done also was commend you on the amount of work you have put into your project, good job.

back to the copper thing

been my experience that copper usually cracks and breaks at the ferrule or the flare in such applications

if you use the flare type nuts, which have longer shoulders to support the tube with your ferrule fittings it will support the tube and maybe be a bit safer.

diesel fuel dripping on a hot exhaust manifold can ignite usually quite easily.

for a temp setup i suppose it would be ok, just keep a look out for seapage which might indicate a crack at one of the fittings,

good job and good luck with your project

bob g

[dieselgman]

Yes, i concur that the 'pyromatic' or 'fusible' valve as is code for heating systems is the way to go for fuel cut-off in the event of fire at the delivery point. At least this will stop additional fuel from being immediately spewed into an inferno. I can't say that the device would halt the disaster that would apparently be underway when the device is tripped(melted), but it certainly could be a good step in the direction of controlling the fire spread.

On some of the high-temp and high-volume fuel rings such as used in a Detroit Diesel there is also an issue related to the chemical interactions between copper and diesel fuel. Perhaps this is a non-issue for the small Listers due to a very low fuel flow. At any rate, it is another potential factor against using copper with diesel.

Gary
diesel-electric.us

[Tom]

I think your "Fuel gauge" setup is awesome. Kind of similar to the one on my Weber BBQ. And they both use propane tanks too.

[biobill]

 Tom,
The grill is going on the exhaust side with the engine driving the rotissary (sp?)
                      Bill

[CD in BC]

Very interesting and thank you for taking the trouble to post it all.

Can't help wondering what airbags from a truck suspension would be like: replaceable, can be inflated to different pressures and some could be inflated/deflated to adjust the overall effect.

[biobill]

CD,
  Seems as though that could work out very well if the concrete portion was built with bag suspension in mind. With the tires, the weight is supported fairly evenly but with air bags it would be more of a bridge between the suspension points. Certainly doable with some steel in the right places. I've got in the neighborhood of 450hrs on the mount and it's worked out well, but if I was doing it again I'd put the engine in the center of the mount. I origionally thought that centering the combined mass of the engine/generator assembly was going to be the way to go but, after watching the differences in movement one end to the other, I think a centered engine would be even smoother. If I end up building another frame I'll give it a try but it's working well enough the way it is that it's not a priority. 

                                                     Bill

[haganes]

Here is a very cheap and effective isolation mount I saw on a fish farm barge in Vietnam.

 

Captain Steven

[biobill]

Dang!!!  I was wondering if I was overbuilding?