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Author Topic: Lister HR3  (Read 6579 times)
unimogr
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« on: October 27, 2006, 12:08:35 am »


Anyone out there have any knowledge of HR3 engines?  I can probably get one pretty cheap and it comes with PTO on the flywheel side and maybe a clutch. 

I did some searching and found the power graphs here:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/003/R1060E/R1060E05.htm

Looks like I could run the engine around 1500 RPM to get the lowest amount of fuel consumption and the most torque and still be able to drive a 20KW head.

I know it won't be as quite and probably not as long lived as a CS but I can probably get it for $100, so I can over look a lot for that kind of money.

If anyone has some input on burning WVO in these engines I'd love to hear it too since that would likely be my primary fuel for this engine.

Thanks,

Jason
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Doug
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2006, 01:36:18 am »

FAO is there nothng they can't study and answere?

Great source of techinical info.....
$100 how can you loose?

Doug
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unimogr
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2006, 02:29:09 am »


Doug.

I haven't seen the engine yet, but I've been told it's not a small lump of metal.  The biggest thing I'm worried about is that I drag it home and find out it's not the right engine for my job and I have a big and ugly lawn ornament, but it's not like I don't have one already:

http://kurz.unimog.ca

My nightmare starts at the bottom.

Jason
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Doug
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2006, 03:18:20 am »

The scrap man collects if you decide to walk away.....

I'm not one to toss money to the wind, but I knew my Petteroid might be a dud for a hell of a lot more than 100 bucks. A real Lister HR3 looks like this

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3816343

Yes its big, but they don't drop out of trees. Most people wouldn't buy one but then we aren't most people are we?

Doug
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listerdiesel
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2006, 10:13:21 am »

For $100 you'd get your money back in spare parts sales if nothing else.

The air-cooled Listers run hotter than the water-cooled engines, so more suitable for Vegetable Oil running if anything.

Go for it!

Peter
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dkwflight
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2006, 11:34:06 pm »

Hi I personally don't have any experience with the HR-3

I did however have some experience with an air-cooled two stroke.
There are head temp gages availabe for these engines.
The thermocouple has a ring that could be placed under a head bolt.
Handy to track temps.

My air cooled lawn mowers are run wide open all the time. to keep the air flow up and the temps down.
I question running the HR-3 at a slow speed. especialy at full load.
Dennis
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28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time
unimogr
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2006, 04:01:11 am »


Thanks for the info Peter, good to know that they run hotter, I would think it may help reduce carbon buildup.  The biggest short coming I can see is that there is no coolant to help preheat the WVO, maybe there is an oil cooler I can tap into or maybe it's possible to suck enough heat out of the exhaust to make it flow on a cold Canadian morning.

Dennis, the temp gauge is a good idea.  I have a Holder tractor with an air cooled MWM diesel and it has a similar setup.  1500 RPM seems to be the sweet spot for torque and fuel consumption, but 1800 would mean I could directly drive the head and I'm only 400 RPM under the governors limit plus the torque doesn't drop off that quickly and the fuel consumption only goes up a bit.

I'll have to try to get up to my friends place and see if it will start or not.  If she runs I'll find a way to drag her home and make her do some work for me.

Jason
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Elk County Dutch
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2006, 07:56:24 am »

Hi Jason,  A couple/three  of weeks ago I got 3 HR2s, One that is complete and another that has some parts to be reassembled and one that is parts only. The ID plates on them state thheir respective horsepower and rpm setting. Also got the Instruction book, Parts list book , Operators hand book and Workshop manual in the deal. From page 36 and 37 of the Instruction book, it tells about the governor and how to change speed of a engine fitted with a constant speed governor. the governor weights and springs are different for different speeds. Likewise the Gov weights vary for the varible speed set up, but not by much. It looks to be a fairly simple job to change out weights and/or springs to get your desired rpms.       As far as longevity, the former owner said they would run somewhere between 12,000 and 18,000 hours before needing overhauled. These engines all came out of the oil patch,(read all kinds of weather conditions and no shelter from anything). Still, that's quite a while. Gary Jones at  www.diesel-electric.us has parts and service. His shipping is very fast too.  Best of luck to you!  Gene
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listerdiesel
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2006, 09:45:50 am »


Thanks for the info Peter, good to know that they run hotter, I would think it may help reduce carbon buildup.  The biggest short coming I can see is that there is no coolant to help preheat the WVO, maybe there is an oil cooler I can tap into or maybe it's possible to suck enough heat out of the exhaust to make it flow on a cold Canadian morning.

Dennis, the temp gauge is a good idea.  I have a Holder tractor with an air cooled MWM diesel and it has a similar setup.  1500 RPM seems to be the sweet spot for torque and fuel consumption, but 1800 would mean I could directly drive the head and I'm only 400 RPM under the governors limit plus the torque doesn't drop off that quickly and the fuel consumption only goes up a bit.

I'll have to try to get up to my friends place and see if it will start or not.  If she runs I'll find a way to drag her home and make her do some work for me.

Jason

I'm pretty sure that the HR/SR engines will run to 2500rpm continuous maximum rpm if you need it.

Peter
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unimogr
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2006, 01:59:33 pm »

Gene, I looked over the website and I can't believe how cheaply you can rebuild one of these engines!!  I'm used to Mercedes diesels and they are not cheap to rebuild, pistons alone will set you back a couple thousand dollars, but that's OEM parts too, I don't know if diesel-electric.com is selling OEM or not.

Peter, the engine tag says BS649 and I used that number to find the link above.  The info on that page seems to indicate that this model stops at 2200.  In the Mercedes industrial diesel line there are probably hundreds of variations in a single engine.  I know that the OM352 (5.7 litre direct injection diesel) went from about 60 hp to 300 hp and had just about every torque and fuel curve you could imagine.  I would guess Listers maybe similar?

Jason
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listerdiesel
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2006, 02:35:45 pm »

Peter, the engine tag says BS649 and I used that number to find the link above.  The info on that page seems to indicate that this model stops at 2200.  In the Mercedes industrial diesel line there are probably hundreds of variations in a single engine.  I know that the OM352 (5.7 litre direct injection diesel) went from about 60 hp to 300 hp and had just about every torque and fuel curve you could imagine.  I would guess Listers maybe similar?

Jason

BS649 is a standard that engine builders such as Lister used to show that their quoted bhp figures were consistent, and the engines were tested to a known level of amient temperature, fuel quality, accessory level etc etc.

I haven't got an HR3 book to hand, but the following figures from the SR3 might illustrate the point:

Max gross bhp:   28.2

Rated CONTINUOUS bhp to BS649:1958

23.25 @ 2500
19.50 @ 2000
18.00 @ 1800
15.00 @ 1500
12.00 @ 1200
9.00   @ 1000

The engine is rated at the above, plus they will deliver 10% higher power (overload) for one hour in twelve consecutive running.

The BS649:1958 standard will include all cooling fans, dynamos/alternators etc., but the main point I was trying to make was that the max rpm is probably higher than the 2200rpm you are looking at.

The guy in Alaska has been in touch with me in the past re spares, but he has only air-cooled parts available, not surpising seeing his location!

Peter
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unimogr
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2006, 04:33:25 pm »

Finally hauled the engine home on the weekend, turns out it's an SR3.

The engine rolls over, appears to be complete and was sealed up when it came out of service.

Here are some pictures:

http://images.unimog.ca/lister/lister1.jpg

http://images.unimog.ca/lister/lister2.jpg

http://images.unimog.ca/lister/lister3.jpg

One thing I am unsure of is the fuel control.  I suspect the control in picture 3 with the adjustable screws is the throttle and the long one is shutdown, but can anyone confirm this?  It's nice to know what everything does before you put the fuel to it.

The engine data plate didn't come through, but it appears the engine was sold as a knockdown kit to a company in Toronto who put in into some piece of machinery.

It's a nice day today so I might try to sneak out in the afternoon and poke around a little more.

Jason
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MeanListerGreen
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2006, 06:21:35 pm »

I saw one of those that was rebuilt to spec sell for 4500.00
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MLG Gib Key Pullers
listerdiesel
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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2006, 09:33:55 pm »

Finally hauled the engine home on the weekend, turns out it's an SR3.

The engine rolls over, appears to be complete and was sealed up when it came out of service.

Here are some pictures:

http://images.unimog.ca/lister/lister1.jpg

http://images.unimog.ca/lister/lister2.jpg

http://images.unimog.ca/lister/lister3.jpg

One thing I am unsure of is the fuel control.  I suspect the control in picture 3 with the adjustable screws is the throttle and the long one is shutdown, but can anyone confirm this?  It's nice to know what everything does before you put the fuel to it.

The engine data plate didn't come through, but it appears the engine was sold as a knockdown kit to a company in Toronto who put in into some piece of machinery.

It's a nice day today so I might try to sneak out in the afternoon and poke around a little more.

Jason

The control plate has a 'STOP' engraved on the lower half with an arrow pointing left as you look at it.

There are three positions, the small lever (you may have something else if a remote throttle was used) is vertical and against the left-hand stop anti-clockwise, this is the starting position. Once started the lever is rotated clockwise until it is horizontal and against the right-hand stop.

To shut down, the lever is further rotated clockwise and held there until the engine stops.

I'll try and get a scan of that on our website tonight, I am just updating the company website so the 'graphics' PC is running.

Lots of SR books on abebooks.com at the weekend.

Peter

 
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listerdiesel
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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2006, 09:46:18 pm »

Image now up:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Misc/ListerStart.jpg

This arrangement is pretty standard for nearly all the air-cooled engines.

Peter
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